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jimmy the one

(2,770 posts)
32. gun control makes marginal improvements
Sun Aug 22, 2021, 01:52 PM
Aug 2021

k ...which requires, as previously discussed, tying militia membership to the right to own guns. Of course this is ridiculous; if I'm in an organized militia then the government will ISSUE ME a rifle!

I am not talking about you or now, I am referring to the original intent of the 2ndA in 1791.
By the way, in 1792 militia gatherings the govt did not issue firearms to the militia, it was incumbent upon the member to supply & bring a firearm, powder & ball. Only 45% of militia members had a firearm, 1803 militia census.

k: So if a mere 38,875 people had voted the other way the election goes 258-273 and we have President Clinton..

Conventional wisdom put the onus on hillary for not visiting wisconsin and michigan near election, while wasting time in arizona. As well as voter apathy. You are the first one I have heard link gun control efforts for hillary's loss.

k: while {your} political priorities aren't doing a thing to stop either crime or the root causes of crime, the Republicans that are in power because of your political priorities have managed to kill more people in 18 months from Covid than all the people murdered with rifles in the the US since 1900.

No idea what you are driving at. And correlation does not prove causation.
Crime cannot be stopped, it can only be hindered and reduced (nationally). Background checks, ammo limits, waiting periods, one gun/month laws generally had marginal reducing effects on violent crime. A marginal improvement is about all we can expect to get, from a rampant gun culture based upon a 230 year old ambiguously worded 2ndA, and the subversion which scalia perpetrated.

k: 5% of gun-related murders are done with rifles. All rifles. ALL RIFLES. The "assault weapons" you want to ban are a subset of "all rifles"

I know, I agree. But when used for mass shootings they can wreak awful carnage. The more they become, the more they will. Assault rifles also are not what was intended to be allowed in 1791 - predominantly single shot musquettes. Back then attached bayonets were not allowed in most towns during peacetime, that was a restriction for the time. Founding fathers could never have foreseen such sophisticated firearms as exist today, what with hermetically sealed gunpowder as well. A person can defend their homes for most all intents and purposes with one single shot rifle or handgun, or two or three. Do not need overkill assault rifle.

k: REPUBLICANS are in charge. And why are they in charge?... perhaps it's because when gun-control advocates make up shit that sounds good to the non-gun-owning liberal base, the gun-owners can see through the misinformation.

Personally I do not think gun control makes much difference in politics, at least not decisively as you suggest. And of course correlation does not prove causation.
I will point out a correlation: violent crime rates and gun crime rates fell about 35% under clinton from 1992 - 2000, then leveled out under bush. During that same time period 1992 - 2000, the gun ownership rate also fell about 35%, from approx 35% personal gun ownership rate to 25% (corroborated by pew, gallup, gss, cbs) as well as 'gun in home' rates; Correlation does not prove causation but it does not disprove it either. It might hold it might not.
Less gun ownership rates = less violent crime rate = a correlation, 1992 - 2000.
(clinton crime initiative enacted 1993, first data 1994 also likely contributed to crime rate decline, which began in 1992 data).

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

The only "well regulated militia" [View all] safeinOhio Jan 2021 OP
Disagree; we the people, all of us, need to be ready to defend our country. LongtimeAZDem Jan 2021 #1
Then they all need safeinOhio Jan 2021 #2
"Well regulated" as intended, means that every citizen is trained, equipped, and prepared LongtimeAZDem Jan 2021 #3
When written it didn't mean women. safeinOhio Jan 2021 #4
Quibble all you want. If January 6 didn't wake you up, I won't argue with you. LongtimeAZDem Jan 2021 #5
Because the NG is regulated, they can be cleaned up. safeinOhio Jan 2021 #7
Unless, of course, that the states pass something yagotme Feb 2021 #17
Of course. needledriver Jan 2021 #6
10 United States Code section 246... krispos42 Jan 2021 #8
Sounds like the old draft. safeinOhio Jan 2021 #9
Unorganized Militia? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha jimmy the one Aug 2021 #22
Nice try krispos42 Aug 2021 #24
There's this saying about repeating a lie. discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2021 #25
12 justices for militia, 5 for individual jimmy the one Aug 2021 #26
Huh, well since there have been no SCOTUS decisions on this issue, I guess you're... wait a minute! krispos42 Aug 2021 #27
gun control side won last 7 of 8 presidential elections jimmy the one Aug 2021 #30
That's YOUR interpretation of original intent... krispos42 Aug 2021 #31
gun control makes marginal improvements jimmy the one Aug 2021 #32
At the expence of substantial setbacks elswhere. krispos42 Aug 2021 #33
Gun ownership charts, gss, gallup jimmy the one Aug 2021 #34
It's probably the deterioration of telephone polling krispos42 Aug 2021 #35
cruikshank; maybe 21 militia, 5 individual jimmy the one Aug 2021 #28
There's not much point in arguing about it ... HeartachesNhangovers Jan 2021 #10
So? Gun ownership is not linked to militia service hack89 Jan 2021 #11
The antigun (like all true believers, of any sort), have their 'articles of faith'- or... friendly_iconoclast Jan 2021 #12
So now that trump's gone, that "well regulated militia" thing comes back into play. Paladin Jan 2021 #13
"You gun rights people sure were quiet..." About what? What do *you* think ought to have been said? friendly_iconoclast Jan 2021 #14
You've dodged the question before: friendly_iconoclast Jan 2021 #15
First, it's against DU rules to advocate for violence against the government krispos42 Feb 2021 #18
I'm proud to call my self a liberal...AND a gun owner. Rick Rolle Feb 2021 #19
I'm a liberal gun owner, myself. Paladin Feb 2021 #20
maybe 90 million gun owners jimmy the one Aug 2021 #23
Fortunately gun ownership is an individual right independent of militia service. Nt hack89 Feb 2021 #16
Both I, and the SCOTUS, agree with you. Rick Rolle Feb 2021 #21
I'll admit that the National Guard is more "well-regulated" than the unorganized militia... SYFROYH Aug 2021 #29
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