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Polybius

(21,708 posts)
45. I wasn't being sarcastic at all when I said you're a good person
Sat Feb 21, 2026, 01:18 PM
21 hrs ago

I meant it. You clearly care deeply about fairness, exploitation, and concentrated power. That comes through strongly, and I respect that conviction even though we land in different places.

Where I struggle is with the idea that there’s only one morally permissible conclusion here, and that anyone who doesn’t adopt it is engaging in hypocrisy on the level of slave-owning founders. That comparison feels disproportionate. It turns a complex, modern dispute about technology, copyright law, and corporate power into a binary test of character.

I agree that “publicly available” is not the same as “public domain.” I also agree that courts and legislatures can favor the wealthy. None of that makes your concerns illegitimate. But it also doesn’t automatically settle the legal or moral debate in one direction. There are scholars, artists, lawyers, and yes, liberals, who disagree in good faith about whether training models on publicly accessible material constitutes theft under existing law, or whether the right answer is new licensing regimes, compulsory compensation systems, or stricter limits. That’s not moral blindness; it’s disagreement about how to apply principles in a new context.

You see using AI as endorsement. I see it more like participating in an emerging technology while also supporting better guardrails and accountability. Wearing Ray-Ban Meta glasses isn’t, in my mind, an advertisement for oligarchy. It’s using a consumer device that exists in a legal market. I don’t feel that doing so means I’ve decided creators rights don’t matter.

I understand why this feels like a moral line in the sand to you. It just doesn’t feel that absolute to me. I’m not carving out an exception because it benefits me. I’m weighing tradeoffs in a system that’s already messy and evolving. That doesn’t make you bad for opposing it. It just means we’re drawing the line in different places without either of us intending harm.

I also need to push back on the claim that “no reasonable liberal can disagree” on whether AI is theft.

Liberals disagree with each other all the time about hard edge cases in law, especially when technology moves faster than statutes. Copyright law has always involved tensions: fair use, transformative use, indexing, caching, search engines, data mining, parody, sampling. Courts have repeatedly ruled that copying for certain intermediate or analytical purposes can be lawful even when the underlying works remain fully copyrighted. That’s not the same as saying “publicly available equals public domain.” It’s saying the law distinguishes between ownership of a work and how it may be analyzed or processed.

Search engines copy entire webpages to index them. Plagiarism detection tools copy student essays to compare them. Google Books scanned millions of copyrighted books, and courts ultimately found that to be transformative fair use because it didn’t substitute for the original works. You can disagree with those rulings, but they show that reasonable legal minds (many of them progressive) have not treated all large scale copying as automatic theft.

So when someone argues that model training might fall under existing fair use doctrines, or that the right solution is compensation frameworks rather than prohibition, that’s not “pretending publicly available means public domain.” It’s engaging in a real legal debate about what constitutes infringement versus transformative analysis.

You’re absolutely right that corporations defend their own IP aggressively. But pointing that out doesn’t resolve the underlying legal question either.

It’s fair to argue that current AI training practices should require licensing or payment. It’s fair to argue they shouldn’t. What’s not fair, in my view, is declaring that one side of that debate is inherently unreasonable or morally disqualified from being liberal.

This is an unsettled legal and ethical issue. Reasonable liberals can disagree about it without abandoning their values.

Recommendations

1 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

What could go wrong? FalloutShelter Tuesday #1
I hope all these products FAIL!!!! Multichromatic Tuesday #2
I have Ray-Ban Meta's that have been out for a couple of years now Polybius Tuesday #6
Because most people don't want to have to wonder if anyone wearing glasses is taking photos and/or highplainsdem Tuesday #9
Ray-Ban Meta's are a lot different than small companies who put out similar glasses Polybius Tuesday #10
Meta is planning to add facial recognition to its smart glasses. I guess you missed the news. highplainsdem Tuesday #12
No, we were talking about currently, not speculation on the future Polybius Tuesday #13
I don't believe there aren't ways to disable that light, or that it can't simply stop working. And highplainsdem Tuesday #14
There are ways, but it's quite complicated Polybius Tuesday #16
Btw, would you trust anyone wearing smart glasses and watching children to be watching innocently, highplainsdem Tuesday #15
I would thoroughly vet anyone around my kids Polybius Tuesday #17
No, we don't have to tolerate people wearing glasses that could be recording and storing photos, highplainsdem Tuesday #18
Google Glass was discontinued because it was expensive and the technology wasn't there yet in 2013 Polybius Wednesday #20
The reasons Google Glass was discontinued usually have privacy concerns at or near the top. Tech highplainsdem Wednesday #21
Smart glasses don't create new surveillance, they operate within the same legal framework Polybius Wednesday #28
You're much too trusting of AI companies and how desperate they always are for more training data. highplainsdem Wednesday #29
You're right about one thing: distrust of large tech companies is understandable Polybius Thursday #33
The formatting of your reply is very reminiscent of outputs from genAI. You're defending/promoting highplainsdem Thursday #35
I'll clear this up directly: it's me writing the replies Polybius Thursday #41
Thanks for explaining. And I'll accept your explanation because I would like to believe that people on highplainsdem Friday #42
Thank you for accepting my explanation, you are a great person Polybius Friday #43
Liberals are supposed to be good people, concerned about others and wanting fairness. That's all I'm highplainsdem 23 hrs ago #44
I wasn't being sarcastic at all when I said you're a good person Polybius 21 hrs ago #45
You keep trying to make a fundamentally unethical defense of an industry built on theft that highplainsdem 20 hrs ago #47
I'm not rooting for AI companies to "win a battle against artists" Polybius 11 hrs ago #50
Some Reddit threads on what people think of people wearing smart glasses: highplainsdem Wednesday #30
I honestly don't care what a handful of Reddit threads say Polybius Thursday #34
Thanks! architect359 19 hrs ago #48
This. And people are defending it. travelingthrulife Wednesday #22
To all those consuming morons willing to buy this junk, I would like to quote Jim Morrison by saying.... Crowman2009 Tuesday #3
"They were a double pair of Joo Janta 200 Super-Chromatic Peril Sensitive Sunglasses" muriel_volestrangler Tuesday #4
LOL... Thank you for my laugh of the day FemDemERA Tuesday #5
I have zero doubt that the people who buy these products Skittles Tuesday #7
Just........ Red Mountain Tuesday #8
Google's brand of smart glasses, Google Glass, were discontinued soon after they were introduced highplainsdem Tuesday #11
Reminds me of this parody. Crowman2009 Tuesday #19
Just no! SheltieLover Wednesday #23
They are trying to normalize surveillance! SheltieLover Wednesday #24
Yes! And it surprises and disappoints me that any Democrats, any liberals, would be okay with this, highplainsdem Wednesday #25
Absolutely in agreement with all you've stated! SheltieLover Wednesday #27
I wouldn't want an apple product unless it was made of gold and given to me by cook yaesu Wednesday #26
I'm still waiting for my Honewell kitchen computer... hunter Wednesday #31
That ad is so hilarious - and sexist. highplainsdem Thursday #36
It keeps them out of trouble. hunter Thursday #38
I plan to sell my house so I can buy all those goodies! chouchou Thursday #32
The prices are coming down, unfortunately. Which means that more and more teachers will have to highplainsdem Thursday #37
Your words are true. Personally, I've never liked the idea that some students can easily... chouchou Thursday #39
Oh great, now jealous husbands can spy on their wives FakeNoose Thursday #40
Apple's products have gone from amazing to shit Prairie Gates 21 hrs ago #46
Besides the whole being an insane mass murderer thing, the Unabomber may have had a point or two about technology. LudwigPastorius 19 hrs ago #49
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