General Discussion

Torchlight

(7,062 posts)

59. What then is the precise point at which defense ends and aggression begins?

Reply to PeaceWave (Reply #57)

Fri Feb 13, 2026, 02:38 PM

Feb 2026

How is that defined, and does this apply to all circumstances or simply this one?

This is the problem. Self defense doesn't permit you to then become an aggressor.

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SheltieLover GoCubsGo Wednesdays GrapesOfWrath csusan La Urraca

241 replies

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Highlight:

A man was harassing a woman in the elevator. See what she did.♥️ [View all] riversedge Feb 2026 OP

Good on her! 3catwoman3 Feb 2026 #1

Think? BidenRocks Feb 2026 #52

Sadly true. niyad Feb 2026 #96

Well, yes, there is that. 3catwoman3 Feb 2026 #97

It's all bdamomma Feb 2026 #165

life can be challenging when you think with your dick. and so many of them do nt orleans Feb 2026 #167

I had a biology professor in college that said something like that. WinstonSmith4740 Feb 2026 #190

She beat the crap out of him !!!!!!! Yahooooo Trueblue1968 Feb 2026 #191

Good LetMyPeopleVote Feb 2026 #2

This message was self-deleted by its author PeaceWave Feb 2026 #3

Nah...and he won't report it anyhow. MineralMan Feb 2026 #7

This message was self-deleted by its author PeaceWave Feb 2026 #9

How was she to know that? I would have been scared to death that he would attack again in that closed space. AnotherMother4Peace Feb 2026 #15

This message was self-deleted by its author PeaceWave Feb 2026 #32

What leads you to assert a momentarily lowered head removes all threat? Torchlight Feb 2026 #34

Are you really going to ask a sexual assault victim BidenRocks Feb 2026 #60

I included an excerpt from the post I responded to Torchlight Feb 2026 #61

Perhaps quotation marks might have avoided confusion. I knew niyad Feb 2026 #92

Bet you that those who are trying to give the assaulter protection are not female. efhmc Feb 2026 #102

Definitely. MorbidButterflyTat Feb 2026 #115

You underestimate the danger she was in ninjanurse Feb 2026 #133

Now is that clearly no longer a threat in your eyes or hers? usedtobedemgurl Feb 2026 #214

Same as emptying a magazine RoseTrellis Feb 2026 #205

Shooting someone is a bit more damaging than a groin kick Attilatheblond Feb 2026 #207

Hoooo boy, some of them, for sure... electric_blue68 Feb 2026 #234

Don't think he'll be pressing charges, but if he does, my money is on her. Joinfortmill Feb 2026 #17

Maybe a little overkill is what he needed. GaYellowDawg Feb 2026 #18

IMO if she stopped short of debilitating him until the doors opened, this story would have a different ending. Hope22 Feb 2026 #220

I am guessing that it must be difficult to be a woman within your circle of niyad Feb 2026 #27

Absolutely! SheltieLover Feb 2026 #49

What would Krusty Gnome have done?? BattleRow Feb 2026 #66

Pulled out her gun? niyad Feb 2026 #98

What man would touch Kristie Gnome? maxrandb Feb 2026 #124

Well, there is at least one. Wednesdays Feb 2026 #131

We can't count her plastic surgeon. :-) nt spooky3 Feb 2026 #175

By all reports: Corey Lewandowski ShazzieB Feb 2026 #179

I hear she has had him pegged from the very beginning. MineralMan Feb 2026 #223

Nominated for best reply of the century. Maybe Ilsa Feb 2026 #71

I am deeply honoured, thank you. My first reaction was unprintable. niyad Feb 2026 #87

+1 leftstreet Feb 2026 #108

+2 Permanut Feb 2026 #118

Great response niyad Brenda Feb 2026 #138

Thank you. It took a bit to write calmly! niyad Feb 2026 #140

It's been sad to see apologists here for decades. Brenda Feb 2026 #142

I am absolutely not surprised, coming from that one Skittles Feb 2026 #181

So disappointingly true. niyad Feb 2026 #185

Bravo! BlueSpot Feb 2026 #182

Thank you. niyad Feb 2026 #186

THIS! And especially.... electric_blue68 Feb 2026 #233

The Asshole was groping a woman in an elevator. MineralMan Feb 2026 #69

I agree liberalgunwilltravel Feb 2026 #95

Some people respond as if it's not the real world people live in. MineralMan Feb 2026 #101

Thank you for mentioning training in self defense oberle Feb 2026 #169

She made it quite clear after the 1st kacekwl Feb 2026 #80

Nobody is immobilized by one woman's kick to the groin synni Feb 2026 #88

No it wasn't and her defense was exactly as women are trained to do when being assaulted ms liberty Feb 2026 #120

Not from my viewpoint Sanity Claws Feb 2026 #10

This message was self-deleted by its author PeaceWave Feb 2026 #14

You wholly ignore 'Reasonable Fear' Torchlight Feb 2026 #20

The fact that she was trapped & couldn't escape changed the situation, IMO. CrispyQ Feb 2026 #29

....... bluestarone Feb 2026 #38

And she reasoned that he needed a little more reason not to re-attack. MineralMan Feb 2026 #74

Your concern for the sexual predator is noted. chia Feb 2026 #119

if a guy touches me uninvited Skittles Feb 2026 #183

Sorry, he had ample opportunity to act in an adult and civil manner Torchlight Feb 2026 #11

He put hands on her mcar Feb 2026 #22

He wasn't going to stop The Blue Flower Feb 2026 #26

That's right mcar Feb 2026 #160

He put his hands on her TWICE Seinan Sensei Feb 2026 #45

She had every reason to believe he wouldn't stop mcar Feb 2026 #161

Is there a legal limit on beating a potential rapist to the floor? I saw no blood, body parts were still attached irisblue Feb 2026 #23

Even if in a place with a "duty to flee" IbogaProject Feb 2026 #25

Not excessive at all Soul_of_Wit Feb 2026 #30

If that was done to my Daughter or my Wife Seinan Sensei Feb 2026 #50

Nope. She's got it on video. He was warned. thought crime Feb 2026 #33

LOL don't you ever watch scary movies? leftstreet Feb 2026 #40

This message was self-deleted by its author PeaceWave Feb 2026 #43

Sorry. Your post is just so tone deaf leftstreet Feb 2026 #48

Self-defense, not aggression. niyad Feb 2026 #51

This message was self-deleted by its author PeaceWave Feb 2026 #57

What then is the precise point at which defense ends and aggression begins? Torchlight Feb 2026 #59

see post 27 niyad Feb 2026 #82

It's not a free pass for anything. Aristus Feb 2026 #93

Unlimited aggression? MontanaMama Feb 2026 #99

The problem is MorbidButterflyTat Feb 2026 #117

Unlimited aggression would have been empting a full magazine on his self entitled ass. Attilatheblond Feb 2026 #212

Ah, correct! leftstreet Feb 2026 #58

And I am so FUCKING PISSED at the misogynistic, patriarchal BS niyad Feb 2026 #109

Misogyny is Patriarchy's oxygen leftstreet Feb 2026 #110

Absolutely! SheltieLover Feb 2026 #67

Stiletto to the eyes face would be an effective response. irisblue Feb 2026 #84

There was a reason I used to wear 4-inch heels when I was in public. niyad Feb 2026 #125

Stick him with a Hat Pin! BidenRocks Feb 2026 #152

Very true. I don't wear hats, since my sunglasses are usually there if I niyad Feb 2026 #156

Somehow I think that kick to the balls Hope22 Feb 2026 #208

There isn't a jury on this planet that would convict her. cloudbase Feb 2026 #42

He was lucky she didn't pull out a pistol. Nt spooky3 Feb 2026 #70

Sadly, you are overly optimistic about juries. I have seen too many niyad Feb 2026 #126

Indeed. Some of the posts beggar belief. cloudbase Feb 2026 #127

Sadly true! niyad Feb 2026 #129

It absolutely is not obamanut2012 Feb 2026 #53

If she were a man... Dear_Prudence Feb 2026 #54

Killing him would have been excessive use of force Random Boomer Feb 2026 #56

And I hope she reported him to the police. Nt spooky3 Feb 2026 #72

He assaulted her, she moved away, he assaulted her again Justice Feb 2026 #192

He put his hands on her. She had no idea what was next. Irish_Dem Feb 2026 #62

What legal standpoint? fujiyamasan Feb 2026 #65

Thank you for pointing that out. niyad Feb 2026 #128

Not a problem fujiyamasan Feb 2026 #145

I heard that some Japanese rail lines BidenRocks Feb 2026 #157

While that is helpful to a degree, it does not address the problem niyad Feb 2026 #197

All this. electric_blue68 Feb 2026 #235

This would be a good training video ! thought crime Feb 2026 #171

She was trapped in a box with a man who assaulted her. LuckyCharms Feb 2026 #68

This message was self-deleted by its author PeaceWave Feb 2026 #75

You're very wrong. LuckyCharms Feb 2026 #77

This message was self-deleted by its author PeaceWave Feb 2026 #86

I think you're confusing rejections of your assertions with "being upset" Torchlight Feb 2026 #90

Snicker Brenda Feb 2026 #139

Oh, jeez. I'm late to this thread. He really said women were "being upset" because we object to demands Scrivener7 Feb 2026 #240

Oh, I'm not upset at all. LuckyCharms Feb 2026 #100

She turned and pushed a button BidenRocks Feb 2026 #158

Even if it was staged, only good can come from images of women fighting back. Scrivener7 Feb 2026 #241

See post 27. Keep digging that hole, dear heart. It is such a good look for you. niyad Feb 2026 #130

Damn straight niyad. MontanaMama Feb 2026 #213

I am angry, and disgusted. niyad Feb 2026 #215

As we should be. MontanaMama Feb 2026 #216

EXACTLY!!! niyad Feb 2026 #221

If you are in that situation, you have every reason to believe someone is going to try and rape you. FascismIsDeath Feb 2026 #189

She was always at risk of him strangling her. Taller/ heavier Hope22 Feb 2026 #218

"Excessive" would have been another two or three kicks to his nuts. GoCubsGo Feb 2026 #76

Nope. MontanaMama Feb 2026 #91

+1 for the blame comment. - nt CrispyQ Feb 2026 #159

She should've shouted "but the DOW is over fifty thousand" Shambala Feb 2026 #114

Snicker niyad Feb 2026 #132

Snort! electric_blue68 Feb 2026 #236

Public Service Notice ninjanurse Feb 2026 #134

Not sure about this because she would surely have been in fear of her life. He assaulted her by PatrickforB Feb 2026 #154

Well, if that had gone to trial and she was in the dock on assault charges, and I were on the jury... Jedi Guy Feb 2026 #178

I don't think so. A man is bigger and stronger than a woman, so she would be justified in fearing that if she didn't tblue37 Feb 2026 #184

A women who was assaulted in a confined space she cannot readily retreat from can/should use all the force she can Attilatheblond Feb 2026 #206

Golly, maybe if he had smiled more she wouldn't have felt the need to fiercely defend herself until she could escape Attilatheblond Feb 2026 #210

Yes. Because he could catch more flies with honey than with a creepy sexual assault in an elevator. Scrivener7 Feb 2026 #239

Really? She was still stuck in there with him LearnedHand Feb 2026 #227

Oh, for fuck's sakes. No, it wasn't excessive force. She did exactly the right thing. Scrivener7 Feb 2026 #232

Hope she left some lasting damage dalton99a Feb 2026 #4

And That's How You Do It! MineralMan Feb 2026 #5

She really dealt with that assaulter but hope she also called security and police to protect other less capable women. MLAA Feb 2026 #6

The fact that we are seeing the video... Soul_of_Wit Feb 2026 #36

I'm pretty sure a lot of elevators have security cameras in them. MineralMan Feb 2026 #78

I assumed it was security video Soul_of_Wit Feb 2026 #209

Yes. They only look at them if there is an incident. MineralMan Feb 2026 #211

That was the perfect place to put my last heart. 1WorldHope Feb 2026 #8

K&R! Torchlight Feb 2026 #12

Good for her! SheltieLover Feb 2026 #13

Whoa, don't know if this is real, but I'm gonna use her moves! Joinfortmill Feb 2026 #16

He (and Trump) need a dictionary that explain what "No!" means. Ping Tung Feb 2026 #19

From 2016, apparently woman is a Beijing TV host and actress. betsuni Feb 2026 #21

Thank you for this. I thought it looked a bit familiar. Still relevant. niyad Feb 2026 #135

My first thought was AI slop. Thanks for the post. Monsieur_Grumpe Feb 2026 #196

I wish more women/girls had more situational awareness. irisblue Feb 2026 #24

A friend asked me once why I do not use headphones when I am niyad Feb 2026 #39

Holy shit that was pretty badass! fujiyamasan Feb 2026 #28

Bravo! You go, girl! Vinca Feb 2026 #31

BRAVA!!! niyad Feb 2026 #37

I do not know whether this was staged (as I remember a similar video niyad Feb 2026 #35

Excessive force, Maj. Dude Feb 2026 #41

Well done! UpInArms Feb 2026 #44

This seems staged. However, IF this video teaches or inspires a woman to: flvegan Feb 2026 #46

What more do we know about this? I think it looks like... QueerDuck Feb 2026 #47

There is a (possibly apocryphal) story from many years ago in the London tube dickthegrouch Feb 2026 #55

She was in danger with no ability to flee until the door opened Ritabert Feb 2026 #63

And THAT, my dears, is how it is DONE!!!!! hamsterjill Feb 2026 #64

I celebrate her quick reactions--and good aim! hlthe2b Feb 2026 #73

Good for her. He has no business putting hands on her. She did excellent. Don't minimize. Srkdqltr Feb 2026 #79

Possibly fake video Tasmanian Devil Feb 2026 #81

Nope. That is a camera mounted in the ceiling of the elevator car. MineralMan Feb 2026 #104

well, i guess i could smile at the camera next time i'm in an elevator -- but i don't think it'll show up very good orleans Feb 2026 #168

Looks fake to me. There's a lot of this stuff getting posted in the "reels" Liberal In Texas Feb 2026 #107

So.... MorbidButterflyTat Feb 2026 #113

LOL! ShazzieB Feb 2026 #180

This message was self-deleted by its author PeaceWave Feb 2026 #116

Wut? Brenda Feb 2026 #147

And the only rec for this post calling it AI slop is Brenda Feb 2026 #143

Please ... Tasmanian Devil Feb 2026 #153

This looks so fake Chicagogrl1 Feb 2026 #83

It's fake. They're both amateur actors. Made to be click-bait and passed all over social media. Liberal In Texas Feb 2026 #149

Fake or not, if only something like that had happened to a convicted 34-count... the nelm Feb 2026 #170

Staged or not, it shows women a course of action in such a situation. niyad Feb 2026 #225

The "well actually" crowd is in the building mcar Feb 2026 #228

Yes, but this is about women protecting themselves. The very idea niyad Feb 2026 #229

Yes, they have to be totally aware of what they are doing mcar Feb 2026 #230

ggrrrrrrr niyad Feb 2026 #231

I can't believe that the guy thought that would work. mjvpi Feb 2026 #85

He got what's coming to him. bluescribbler Feb 2026 #89

She did a fine job. Swede Feb 2026 #94

should have kicked him once more when he was down moonshinegnomie Feb 2026 #103

It looks rehearsed. Omnipresent Feb 2026 #105

"She allowed him...." MorbidButterflyTat Feb 2026 #111

I never suggested she put herself in a corner. Omnipresent Feb 2026 #194

And if he came at her again when her back was against the wall, she could have been trapped. ShazzieB Feb 2026 #151

My point is that most people want to see who is lurking around behind them. Omnipresent Feb 2026 #193

Convince me this isn't staged misanthrope Feb 2026 #106

Staged or scripted Tasmanian Devil Feb 2026 #112

I don't care if it's staged or not. Dem_in_Nebr. Feb 2026 #121

Yeah, even if it was staged or faked, I think it was informative. ShazzieB Feb 2026 #187

And THAT is how it's done. Javaman Feb 2026 #122

If i am alone on an elevator and a MineralMan Feb 2026 #123

Used to be a tip of the Fedora. BidenRocks Feb 2026 #173

Well, don't expect a tip of the MAGA cap. MineralMan Feb 2026 #200

I've watched the video a couple of times and IMO no jury would convict her LogDog75 Feb 2026 #136

FAFO Timewas Feb 2026 #137

I also agree that no jury would convict her. HeartsCanHope Feb 2026 #141

She was in an enclosed space with someone making unwanted advances, with no way to know how far he was going DFW Feb 2026 #146

Right on. Tactical Peek Feb 2026 #144

Not been Rebl2 Feb 2026 #148

Same here. And I did not get on an elevator if there was a lone man there. niyad Feb 2026 #150

Think back to 2016 canetoad Feb 2026 #155

That's about how old this staged video is. Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2026 #162

Really? canetoad Feb 2026 #163

I'll have to remember that move! ShazzieB Feb 2026 #188

Can you just imagine the hysteria had she done so? niyad Feb 2026 #217

That... I partly (at the least) wished she'd said "Get the hell way from me!" electric_blue68 Feb 2026 #237

Women bdamomma Feb 2026 #164

And boy will it be tough in our new burkas! Nt Hope22 Feb 2026 #219

Unless bdamomma Feb 2026 #224

I look good in red.. Hope22 Feb 2026 #226

If real, she did exactly the right thing. chowmama Feb 2026 #166

'Bought 9-10 years ago, my husband broke up a dude from hitting the dude's girlfriend. chouchou Feb 2026 #172

She should have nailed him even more. Make him a eunuch. BigmanPigman Feb 2026 #174

Good for her! ABC123Easy Feb 2026 #176

This message was self-deleted by its author LudwigPastorius Feb 2026 #177

excellent job. pansypoo53219 Feb 2026 #195

Busting his nuts! Smart move. ProudMNDemocrat Feb 2026 #198

Violence is good as long as we agree with the outcome AZLD4Candidate Feb 2026 #199

Good for Her!! She walloped an Epstein Jr. !! It appears she is trained blue-wave Feb 2026 #201

ouch... myohmy2 Feb 2026 #202

Just make sure you hurt them bad enough they can't follow you. Linda ladeewolf Feb 2026 #203

That looked super choreographed LoveSucky Feb 2026 #204

Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2026 #222

Good on her! Either real (effin' bastard wouldn't take no), or staged as training. electric_blue68 Feb 2026 #238