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Sympthsical

(10,829 posts)
102. I actually agree with much you say here
Wed May 28, 2025, 11:25 AM
May 2025

Particularly on matters of policy

But here is the core difference, and it has to do with the idea of propaganda. The Right has been very good at penetrating social media. They have found an audience willing to the listen to what they have to say. The crux of my viewpoint is that we have primed that audience to listen to what they have to say. You read your own website. You must see the hostility towards males and various racial groups depending on the time of day. Usually white people, sometimes Latinos, and AAPI get noticed once in a while for their white adjacentness.

We keep alienating what should be natural allies. It becomes a question - Do you want to win elections or do you want to grind grievances? And somewhere along the way, we decided we wanted to grind grievances. And unfortunately, our grievances are heavily, heavily anchored in identity politics, so our expressed politics - the politics other people see and the cultural results of those politics - are primed to alienate people. We have a whole system of who is allowed to say what to whom. Of course Republicans exploit grievance. They're very good at it. Which circles around to the point in my previous post. If we're having a contest over which side is good at exploiting grievance, Republicans will win. They're good at this stuff. And they're also a bit more homogenized than the Democratic party. So when we start down that road, we might get negativity pointed at Republicans, but we also start firing at each other inside our own tent. It's the nature of our party. We cannot do grievance politics centered on identity and minimize the friendly fire. It's impossible in a political entity so utterly dependent on coalition politics.

I think where you and I differ is in how we read the media. You think I'm spreading propaganda. However, I'm usually relating either my lived experience, the experiences of those I keep in contact with, or reading outside of the MSM. I read a lot, I observe a lot, I listen a lot. To everyone.

I would love to be a reality-based community. We are not that anymore. I have zero intention of relitigating this, but we can see in this Biden/Tapper stuff that there is a very, very closed bubble that thinks everything is propaganda. Everything. And it is well outside even the average Democratic voter. When two thirds of Democratic voters are saying one thing, and it's being dismissed as MSM propaganda in these closed partisan spaces, who's in touch with reality? Over the past two years, just saying "Damn, prices at the grocery store are crazy!" was considered some kind of contrarian statement. Why? Because it imperiled a political narrative that everything was great? Pick a topic. Just saying uncontroversial exceedingly obvious things gets push back. Oh, that's the MSM! They're lying! They're lying about what? What I just paid at the grocery store? Guys, I have the receipt in my hands.

There is so much of this on our side now. "You are not seeing what your eyes and ears are clearly seeing and hearing. It's all propaganda."

Voters see this. The sun is up. They can see us. Narrative reality is increasingly becoming an alternative lived in reality aided and abetted by enclosure in sealed partisan spaces. I suspect what you and I see as propaganda are going to be very different things.

I know Republicans are bad. It's why I don't vote for them. I don't need to be told they're awful. What I need to be told is what the party's strategy is going forward to create a sustainable electoral majority. Particularly because that 2030 census is coming, and it scares the hell out of me. 2026 is probably in the bag for us. 2028 will probably be ours to lose. And after that? Is our electoral fate really "Well, let's wait til Republicans wreck things, then we'll win the election!" Because that's kind of been our strategy for most of my life. Republicans take five steps backward, then we come in and do a bit of spot cleaning, then Republicans come in and push us another five steps back. I think the trajectory of this electoral habit has been painstakingly clear.

Either we figure out how to start talking to the parts of the country who don't already agree with us, or the electorate will change our party by force in the 2030s. We're so desperately bad at seeing problems coming until they arrive (or until they've already passed and we've lost major elections). Because we dismiss anything we don't want to hear as propaganda.

Wouldn't it be nice to tackle a problem before it arrives? Just for a fun change of pace?

Recommendations

4 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

lmaooooo what on earth WhiskeyGrinder May 2025 #1
How about, hildegaard28 May 2025 #2
+ 100!! CrispyQ May 2025 #5
The big brains hildegaard28 May 2025 #10
IMHO atreides1 May 2025 #103
Ill throw one out: legalize a distinction between wages and income, Volaris May 2025 #44
I don't think it's the economy. They have been trained to hate liberals and Democrats, travelingthrulife May 2025 #59
Exactly Rebl2 May 2025 #99
There's nothing wrong with Dems trying to plan a strategy senseandsensibility May 2025 #3
Ahhhhh--More "Bad Things About Democrats". Kingofalldems May 2025 #4
Oh those Democrats! Doing what people say they should, learn to speak to the working class. But ... but ... THE HOTEL. betsuni May 2025 #29
Bad? Sound like they're researching what went wrong. WarGamer May 2025 #36
Lost the WH, House, Senate, Judiciary GreatGazoo May 2025 #68
Why is that a bad thing? Mountainguy May 2025 #6
I am done with male victimhood Ritabert May 2025 #7
I think the male bashing when male concerns are considered Alpeduez21 May 2025 #21
I'm laughing....my wife said, "Why don't they just go to school walkingman May 2025 #8
Or they could take a page from republican men kacekwl May 2025 #54
it's my party........everybody sing along now. nt msongs May 2025 #9
... Celerity May 2025 #14
Judy;s gonna get what's coming to her.... nt msongs May 2025 #16
DNC giving me a good reason to ignore donation appeals. nt delisen May 2025 #11
I don't understand why people have a problem with this, republicans got in power because of stuff like this unblock May 2025 #12
I think a lack of authenticity might be the problem LearnedHand May 2025 #34
I think Democrats focus test too much AZProgressive May 2025 #38
cringe level 7 Celerity May 2025 #13
Not taking the bait on every single culture war issue the GOP conjures up costs nothing. BannonsLiver May 2025 #15
"donors and strategists holing up in luxury hotel rooms" Retrograde May 2025 #17
It's the "cost" that bothers me most. lees1975 May 2025 #18
The only issue I see here is the "luxury hotel room" thing jmowreader May 2025 #19
Why are you framing this so negatively? Prairie Gates May 2025 #20
I posted the title and 4 paragraphs verbatim TheProle May 2025 #24
How do you make a stupid idea look better? leftstreet May 2025 #28
According to YouGov it was 19 million womanofthehills May 2025 #32
Maybe what YouGov meant was that 19 million eligible voters didn't turn out? CrispyQ May 2025 #58
believe me, repuke elites have these same sorts of events cadoman May 2025 #26
Young men feel like they have lost their power Tree Lady May 2025 #22
That's a lot of kids right now womanofthehills May 2025 #33
I think part of it is giving too much to the kids Tree Lady May 2025 #37
I don't know how young people afford to buy a house today, CrispyQ May 2025 #63
My daughter 46 making over 200k Tree Lady May 2025 #74
Social media has convinced too many that they can make tons of money online or in some get rich scheme tulipsandroses May 2025 #78
Exactly this is the issue with my grandson Tree Lady May 2025 #84
all they need to do is use simpler language, more baby talk, a lot of googoo, gaagaa and maybe they can get through to ImNotGod May 2025 #23
Unfortunately, what it takes to "please" the portion of men Bettie May 2025 #25
Let me guess - they are using the very same strategists who put the party in this position to try to get us out of it. Midwestern Democrat May 2025 #27
Bingo n/t Sympthsical May 2025 #40
Kind of like "our big brain is gonna get us out of this mess that our big brain got us in." CrispyQ May 2025 #65
Does that mean I have to grunt and scratch my crotch? Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin May 2025 #30
Well, one just needs read most of the responses in this thread and it is understood that men are not welcome here Alpeduez21 May 2025 #31
What would you, personally, like to hear from the party? WhiskeyGrinder May 2025 #55
Some of what I'd like to hear we cant discuss here. Callie1979 May 2025 #101
You are correct RJ-MacReady May 2025 #73
Many think the podcasts won the election. womanofthehills May 2025 #35
That makes sense to me, especially in light of the recent study that men, especially young men, don't read much anymore. CrispyQ May 2025 #66
What a waste of money JI7 May 2025 #39
Is this a job creation program? jalan48 May 2025 #41
So I guess this means that minorities will be thrown under the bus? DSandra May 2025 #42
Why does it have to be either or? RJ-MacReady May 2025 #76
Maybe instead of blowing millions of dollars MorbidButterflyTat May 2025 #43
DU may ridicule, but I agree with the findings. Wanderlust988 May 2025 #45
I'm pretty sure few Democrats use those terms. Anybody know? I remember AOC defending "Latinx": betsuni May 2025 #46
Elizabeth Warren Shrek May 2025 #53
This doesn't help RJ-MacReady May 2025 #100
According to Pew pattyloutwo May 2025 #57
The biggest mistake Democrats have made is failing to tell people when they've done something good. Vinca May 2025 #47
That says more about young people that it does the party. walkingman May 2025 #51
I suspect that SS and Medicare rank really low on the list of what your average 25 yr old is concerned about MichMan May 2025 #105
I just gave that as an example because they're among the biggest and most successful programs. What would a 25 Vinca May 2025 #110
Why we'll keep right on losing. Passages May 2025 #48
In my view we need a strategy that will answer 2 questions. Prairie_Seagull May 2025 #49
Two parties and both have lost their way. nt Autumn May 2025 #50
I have a better idea gab13by13 May 2025 #52
Actually all they needed to do was undo Reagan's actions. Blue Full Moon May 2025 #56
Women make up nearly half of the working class. Quiet Em May 2025 #60
We need new leaders that don't come across as wimps. It doesn't matter how stupid you doc03 May 2025 #61
Obama was pretty good at reaching young men: a dynamic messenger promoting "hope and change" andym May 2025 #62
Bernie just showed how to do it. Save your millions. thought crime May 2025 #64
We're losing the culture war Sympthsical May 2025 #67
Interesting EarlG May 2025 #71
I feared this would be more or less the shape of the response Sympthsical May 2025 #72
No need for a straw man EarlG May 2025 #75
Keeping it very simple - a question Sympthsical May 2025 #79
So much crap you've said... Brenda May 2025 #87
Have you seen some of our national rhetoric towards Latinos? Sympthsical May 2025 #90
This message was self-deleted by its author Brenda May 2025 #91
This message was self-deleted by its author Brenda May 2025 #89
You asked me a direct question EarlG May 2025 #93
I actually agree with much you say here Sympthsical May 2025 #102
Hostility towards males here? Brenda May 2025 #108
No, I got it Sympthsical May 2025 #109
Sorry for the late reply EarlG May 2025 #112
Sorry, this got lost in the shuffle and just saw it Sympthsical Jun 2025 #113
I completely agree with this and your later post as well. Abolishinist May 2025 #77
This is the part i ageee with: "ever-changing list of cultural offenses people must be persecuted for committing" LearnedHand May 2025 #81
Well said. Littlered May 2025 #82
The odd thing is, I don't think this moralizing tone fujiyamasan May 2025 #86
Thanks for these posts. BluesRunTheGame May 2025 #95
Agreed. I came of age politically in the 1980s and being a liberal minded young man inclined towards intellectualism Midwestern Democrat May 2025 #97
NAFTA was, in my opinion, a HUGE political blunder. BluesRunTheGame May 2025 #98
It made me glad. LAS14 May 2025 #69
I'm so tired of Democrats blaming voters for our electoral failures biocube May 2025 #70
Hard to do when the infinite dark money ads define you. BlueTsunami2018 May 2025 #80
Are they taking Faux pas May 2025 #83
They Couldn't Have Rented... ProfessorGAC May 2025 #85
We need to reach young men too. Initech May 2025 #88
That's the biggest pile of horseshit I have seen in some time... kentuck May 2025 #92
Working class young men are pretty much like foreign people. kerry-is-my-prez May 2025 #94
Once again these "consultants" fujiyamasan May 2025 #96
The Dems must learn to jerk off a mic. Clouds Passing May 2025 #104
Here's the answer: lots of Democratic men are racist and sexist. That's why they Scrivener7 May 2025 #106
Save money, just listen to Trump's rally speeches Deminpenn May 2025 #107
The solution: "holing up in luxury hotel rooms" is the problem. usonian May 2025 #111
Doing yard maintenance Tree Lady Jun 2025 #114
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