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Sympthsical

(10,729 posts)
72. I feared this would be more or less the shape of the response
Tue May 27, 2025, 01:11 PM
May 27

There's that impulse. "Perhaps our problem is that we're too awesome." This is a feint that effects to be answer while ignoring the core complaint.

Nowhere in my thinking did I state that our problem is that we fight for equality. Your response is addressing a concept I did not articulate.

Allow me to stick with one issue - a sticky one - but one I can speak of authoritatively and with personal experience. Trans issues. Now I will not discuss the sports thing or bathrooms or anything in that vein. There has been a shift in the last decade. As a gay man, it has been understood that my orientation is immutable. I am a male who is attracted sexually and romantically to other males. Now, this was a non-negotiable thing for us on the Left for quite awhile. Remember, born that way?

It changed. It got weird. I had trans men coming up to me on dating apps. I very politely declined, because I am not interested sexually in that equipment. I wouldn't even mention the reason unless asked. I have a right to be attracted to what I am attracted to. But that did not go well. I was accused of being transphobic. There was a new ideological philosophy that being gay meant being attracted to a gender not a sex. And if I didn't believe this I was a bigot.

People - even straight cis ones - were suddenly lecturing me on how to properly be a gay man. That is crazy. My lesbian friends were being harassed regularly on dating apps by people who have penises. This isn't a right-wing talking point. This isn't propaganda. This happened to us in our own lives. We talk about this amongst ourselves. Look up what the Cotton Ceiling is - and if the reaction isn't to be creeped the fuck out by how predatory it is, I don't know what to tell you. And this idea, that we should be free without judgement to pursue the relationships we want has somehow become a conservative point of view. In our own spaces. Just, whut?

Now, could we have this conversation in public in left-leaning spaces? No, we could not. People get harassed, deplatformed, and brigaded, and would have posts wiped about this stuff. The crazy became the inflexible dogma. It was orientation erasure. The result is that I see more and more LGBT kind of pulling away from the political component of the community. They don't want to be a part of this stuff. They'll just stay home. I know more Republican LGBTers now than I ever did in my life, and it isn't a function of age. I know younger LGBTers in their 20s and 30s who are just tapping out from this stuff.

So here's why your answer is a problem for me. I am for trans rights. Equality, dignity, respect, access to healthcare, nondiscrimination, and the right to live their lives as they wish as they pursue their happiness. I'm a gay man in the Bay Area with many trans people in my social circle, and I want for them to live their best lives.

However, my simple unwillingness to date someone who is not male is seen as not enough in too many of our activist quarters. I might as well be a right-winger. And that's the polite version. My sex, race, and general identity disposition can come into commentary, too. It's all fair when you're designated ok to hate. It's just how loopy it's gotten.

And you can take just about any issue right now regarding race, sex, gender, orientation, etc. and find similar qualities. There's the baseline liberal position - people deserve equality, dignity, and rights. Systems need reforming and policies enacted to give people the best opportunities we can. Then there's the social media activist driven crazy portions like what I and my friends have experienced. But when you bring up how crazy this has all gotten, you get that response. "Oh, sorry that I just care about equality too much!"

That is not equality. That is an attempt at authoritarian imposition of ideological belief systems on others. And we increasingly cannot see the difference. If I'm hated, I don't care. I'm in my 40s with my partner all settled down. I do not have to tread those choppy waters anymore. But we are alienating people with dogmatic ideological positions well outside the boundaries of mainstream thought that the general population does not want to be browbeaten into.

You can browbeat people in your own spaces. Harass people off social media, hide posts, and generally create a space where exists the power for dogma to be enforced. But all that really does is create an insulated system that increasingly loses touch with everyone else.

The discussion isn't how bad are Republicans. We're on DU. We know Republicans are bad. The question is, why are people being turned off from Democrats - particularly more young people, which is a very dangerous situation for us to be in electorally. Particularly with the census imminent. Have you seen Millennials? We're making that Right turn.

This sort of shit is why. We need to stop pretending it's not a problem, stop deflecting from it, stop going, "But Republicans . . ." We need to figure out how to keep fighting for equality while keeping the crazy at bay.

Because we let the crazy into the house. That's on us. The question now is what kind of broom would we like to use to clean this up. For me, the narrower the better. Keep the good, get rid of the crazy.

If the response to that is, "What crazy? I don't see it," we're doomed. People are screaming at full volume how much they hate a lot of the identity politics stuff. And not just white people. LatinX ground is well worn. AAPI - and 80% of my social circle is AAPI, including my large network of in-laws - increasingly see cultural issues as limiting when it comes to going as all in on Democratic politics as they might otherwise do.

And I didn't even touch on economic issues, where for two years before the election, our message was "What problem?" FFS.

It's gotten to the point that we legitimately might need saving from ourselves, because we no longer have the ability to reasonably course correct without melting down about it. I'm not sure the self-awareness requires exists in this moment. "Our problem is that we're too awesome" just isn't reading the American room.

Recommendations

7 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

lmaooooo what on earth WhiskeyGrinder May 26 #1
How about, hildegaard28 May 26 #2
+ 100!! CrispyQ May 26 #5
The big brains hildegaard28 May 26 #10
IMHO atreides1 May 28 #103
Ill throw one out: legalize a distinction between wages and income, Volaris May 27 #44
I don't think it's the economy. They have been trained to hate liberals and Democrats, travelingthrulife May 27 #59
Exactly Rebl2 May 28 #99
There's nothing wrong with Dems trying to plan a strategy senseandsensibility May 26 #3
Ahhhhh--More "Bad Things About Democrats". Kingofalldems May 26 #4
Oh those Democrats! Doing what people say they should, learn to speak to the working class. But ... but ... THE HOTEL. betsuni May 26 #29
Bad? Sound like they're researching what went wrong. WarGamer May 26 #36
Lost the WH, House, Senate, Judiciary GreatGazoo May 27 #68
Why is that a bad thing? Mountainguy May 26 #6
I am done with male victimhood Ritabert May 26 #7
I think the male bashing when male concerns are considered Alpeduez21 May 26 #21
I'm laughing....my wife said, "Why don't they just go to school walkingman May 26 #8
Or they could take a page from republican men kacekwl May 27 #54
it's my party........everybody sing along now. nt msongs May 26 #9
... Celerity May 26 #14
Judy;s gonna get what's coming to her.... nt msongs May 26 #16
DNC giving me a good reason to ignore donation appeals. nt delisen May 26 #11
I don't understand why people have a problem with this, republicans got in power because of stuff like this unblock May 26 #12
I think a lack of authenticity might be the problem LearnedHand May 26 #34
I think Democrats focus test too much AZProgressive May 26 #38
cringe level 7 Celerity May 26 #13
Not taking the bait on every single culture war issue the GOP conjures up costs nothing. BannonsLiver May 26 #15
"donors and strategists holing up in luxury hotel rooms" Retrograde May 26 #17
It's the "cost" that bothers me most. lees1975 May 26 #18
The only issue I see here is the "luxury hotel room" thing jmowreader May 26 #19
Why are you framing this so negatively? Prairie Gates May 26 #20
I posted the title and 4 paragraphs verbatim TheProle May 26 #24
How do you make a stupid idea look better? leftstreet May 26 #28
According to YouGov it was 19 million womanofthehills May 26 #32
Maybe what YouGov meant was that 19 million eligible voters didn't turn out? CrispyQ May 27 #58
believe me, repuke elites have these same sorts of events cadoman May 26 #26
Young men feel like they have lost their power Tree Lady May 26 #22
That's a lot of kids right now womanofthehills May 26 #33
I think part of it is giving too much to the kids Tree Lady May 26 #37
I don't know how young people afford to buy a house today, CrispyQ May 27 #63
My daughter 46 making over 200k Tree Lady May 27 #74
Social media has convinced too many that they can make tons of money online or in some get rich scheme tulipsandroses May 27 #78
Exactly this is the issue with my grandson Tree Lady May 27 #84
all they need to do is use simpler language, more baby talk, a lot of googoo, gaagaa and maybe they can get through to ImNotGod May 26 #23
Unfortunately, what it takes to "please" the portion of men Bettie May 26 #25
Let me guess - they are using the very same strategists who put the party in this position to try to get us out of it. Midwestern Democrat May 26 #27
Bingo n/t Sympthsical May 26 #40
Kind of like "our big brain is gonna get us out of this mess that our big brain got us in." CrispyQ May 27 #65
Does that mean I have to grunt and scratch my crotch? Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin May 26 #30
Well, one just needs read most of the responses in this thread and it is understood that men are not welcome here Alpeduez21 May 26 #31
What would you, personally, like to hear from the party? WhiskeyGrinder May 27 #55
Some of what I'd like to hear we cant discuss here. Callie1979 May 28 #101
You are correct RJ-MacReady May 27 #73
Many think the podcasts won the election. womanofthehills May 26 #35
That makes sense to me, especially in light of the recent study that men, especially young men, don't read much anymore. CrispyQ May 27 #66
What a waste of money JI7 May 26 #39
Is this a job creation program? jalan48 May 26 #41
So I guess this means that minorities will be thrown under the bus? DSandra May 26 #42
Why does it have to be either or? RJ-MacReady May 27 #76
Maybe instead of blowing millions of dollars MorbidButterflyTat May 27 #43
DU may ridicule, but I agree with the findings. Wanderlust988 May 27 #45
I'm pretty sure few Democrats use those terms. Anybody know? I remember AOC defending "Latinx": betsuni May 27 #46
Elizabeth Warren Shrek May 27 #53
This doesn't help RJ-MacReady May 28 #100
According to Pew pattyloutwo May 27 #57
The biggest mistake Democrats have made is failing to tell people when they've done something good. Vinca May 27 #47
That says more about young people that it does the party. walkingman May 27 #51
I suspect that SS and Medicare rank really low on the list of what your average 25 yr old is concerned about MichMan May 28 #105
I just gave that as an example because they're among the biggest and most successful programs. What would a 25 Vinca May 28 #110
Why we'll keep right on losing. Passages May 27 #48
In my view we need a strategy that will answer 2 questions. Prairie_Seagull May 27 #49
Two parties and both have lost their way. nt Autumn May 27 #50
I have a better idea gab13by13 May 27 #52
Actually all they needed to do was undo Reagan's actions. Blue Full Moon May 27 #56
Women make up nearly half of the working class. Quiet Em May 27 #60
We need new leaders that don't come across as wimps. It doesn't matter how stupid you doc03 May 27 #61
Obama was pretty good at reaching young men: a dynamic messenger promoting "hope and change" andym May 27 #62
Bernie just showed how to do it. Save your millions. thought crime May 27 #64
We're losing the culture war Sympthsical May 27 #67
Interesting EarlG May 27 #71
I feared this would be more or less the shape of the response Sympthsical May 27 #72
No need for a straw man EarlG May 27 #75
Keeping it very simple - a question Sympthsical May 27 #79
So much crap you've said... Brenda May 27 #87
Have you seen some of our national rhetoric towards Latinos? Sympthsical May 27 #90
This message was self-deleted by its author Brenda May 27 #91
This message was self-deleted by its author Brenda May 27 #89
You asked me a direct question EarlG May 27 #93
I actually agree with much you say here Sympthsical May 28 #102
Hostility towards males here? Brenda May 28 #108
No, I got it Sympthsical May 28 #109
Sorry for the late reply EarlG May 30 #112
Sorry, this got lost in the shuffle and just saw it Sympthsical Jun 2 #113
I completely agree with this and your later post as well. Abolishinist May 27 #77
This is the part i ageee with: "ever-changing list of cultural offenses people must be persecuted for committing" LearnedHand May 27 #81
Well said. Littlered May 27 #82
The odd thing is, I don't think this moralizing tone fujiyamasan May 27 #86
Thanks for these posts. BluesRunTheGame May 27 #95
Agreed. I came of age politically in the 1980s and being a liberal minded young man inclined towards intellectualism Midwestern Democrat May 28 #97
NAFTA was, in my opinion, a HUGE political blunder. BluesRunTheGame May 28 #98
It made me glad. LAS14 May 27 #69
I'm so tired of Democrats blaming voters for our electoral failures biocube May 27 #70
Hard to do when the infinite dark money ads define you. BlueTsunami2018 May 27 #80
Are they taking Faux pas May 27 #83
They Couldn't Have Rented... ProfessorGAC May 27 #85
We need to reach young men too. Initech May 27 #88
That's the biggest pile of horseshit I have seen in some time... kentuck May 27 #92
Working class young men are pretty much like foreign people. kerry-is-my-prez May 27 #94
Once again these "consultants" fujiyamasan May 28 #96
The Dems must learn to jerk off a mic. Clouds Passing May 28 #104
Here's the answer: lots of Democratic men are racist and sexist. That's why they Scrivener7 May 28 #106
Save money, just listen to Trump's rally speeches Deminpenn May 28 #107
The solution: "holing up in luxury hotel rooms" is the problem. usonian May 28 #111
Doing yard maintenance Tree Lady Jun 2 #114
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