General Discussion

cab67

(3,445 posts)

16. Speaking as one who draws a clear distinction between Judaism and Israel....

Thu May 22, 2025, 01:27 PM

May 22

...I understand the fine line between criticizing the Israeli government or IDL and antisemitism.

My wife is Jewish. (Let's just say I attended Temple Beth Goyim as a kid.) Walking this tightrope around her family - being upset at what the Israeli military is doing right now while also acknowledging the need for Israel to defend itself and understanding the reason Israel exists in the first place - has been very tricky.

It's even harder for my wife. She has relatives in Israel, but she also agrees that some aspects of Israel's reaction to the Hamas attacks (which I fully acknowledge are the reason there's violence in Gaza right now) have been excessive. Both of us have come to accept that the whole situation, from a longer historical perspective, is highly complex.

Part of the problem, for people like us, is that it's sometimes very difficult to really express what we think in words without being accused of bigotry against Jewish people or Palestinian Arabs, depending on who one is talking to.

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161 replies

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Highlight:

The DC assassin is not a religious nutcase. Not a maladjusted outcast. Not a low-down vigilante. [View all] Beastly Boy May 22 OP

Thank you. Unfortunately this is a warning that will fall on deaf ears for many. tritsofme May 22 #1

I am sure it will. Beastly Boy May 22 #2

That is a lot of sworn enemies Bmoboy May 22 #3

You bet. The alternative is to fall to my sworn enemies without a fight. Beastly Boy May 22 #5

The support for this terrorist here sickens me mcar May 22 #4

There's support for these murders? peggysue2 May 22 #24

Im sure some will consider him Mountainguy May 22 #26

That suggests a global war against Americans. yardwork May 22 #39

It's not just our own country Beastly Boy May 22 #45

Yet the outrage remains laser-focused on just one country. yardwork May 22 #46

Yep. Gee, why could that be? mcar May 22 #57

Message auto-removed Name removed May 23 #156

Israel is not terrorizing the Global South. yardwork May 23 #157

I hope that's not the case, Mountainguy but . . . peggysue2 May 22 #43

Good point, re Mangione mcar May 22 #56

There were, and notice I said were, a couple here who cheered the murder of these 2 wonderful people, MarineCombatEngineer May 22 #102

Yes but PCIntern May 23 #149

tsf planning a seaside resort on that land is pouring gasoline on this volatile situation. rubbersole May 22 #6

Likewise, none of it is relevant to my post. Beastly Boy May 22 #7

Can you supply evidence that his actions come from anti-Jewish prejudice rather than opposition to Bibi TheRickles May 22 #8

He murdered two people in cold blood and didn't show any remorse Quiet Em May 22 #9

He chose to terrorize and murder Jews at a Jewish museum Arazi May 22 #10

Do I deserve to be gunned down? I am a U.S. citizen. yardwork May 22 #11

He's a cold-blooded murderer, and that action can't be condoned. TheRickles May 22 #14

My question stands. yardwork May 22 #18

I doubt the shooter knew Mossfern May 22 #19

He didn't ask his victims where they worked or if they were Jewish. It didn't matter to him. Beastly Boy May 22 #21

He waited outside of a Jewish museum. Quiet Em May 22 #22

Some folks just refuse to believe that anti-Semitism and Jew hatred exists. Even when they murder Jews in cold blood tritsofme May 22 #25

Yeah I posted this in another thread, the words "Pogrom" "Ghetto" & "Holocaust" all predate modern Israel nt EX500rider May 23 #159

This was posted in the Jewish Group: sheshe2 May 22 #72

There it is. yardwork May 22 #80

She was working for peace mcar May 22 #97

Yes. He killed two American Jews and not Bibi. Beastly Boy May 22 #20

Are you fucking seriously asking that? Do you hear Maru Kitteh May 22 #50

It's mind boggling, Maru mcar May 22 #61

Wow, this is a shocking question DaBronx May 22 #113

He went to a Jewish museum in the US and shot 2 people JI7 May 22 #129

'normalization of antisemitism under the banner of "free Palestine" elleng May 22 #12

If you recognize antisemitism and don't engage in it under the banner of "free Palestine", Beastly Boy May 22 #48

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..." Towlie May 22 #13

One can object to acts committed by the state of Israel without being antisemitic. elleng May 22 #15

Yes, one can object to acts committed by the state of Israel without being antisemitic. One can also Beastly Boy May 22 #60

True! Now you're starting to understand the flaw in your opening post. Towlie May 22 #92

Forgive my ignorance, but I don't. Could you give me a hint? Beastly Boy May 22 #93

You conceded that "one can object to acts committed by the state of Israel without being antisemitic." Towlie May 22 #96

That's exactly the kind of logic I refuted Beastly Boy May 22 #106

Murder Cirsium May 23 #154

Let me count the red herrings Beastly Boy May 22 #55

And as they try to throw all these red herrings, mcar May 22 #64

This makes no sense on any level. yardwork May 22 #99

Speaking as one who draws a clear distinction between Judaism and Israel.... cab67 May 22 #16

It's not that difficult. yardwork May 22 #36

I think it's also important to note that the event being held at the Jewish Museum... AntiFascist May 22 #53

One might conclude that the killer didn't want a peaceful solution. yardwork May 22 #67

It's tough, but that's not what i am talking about Beastly Boy May 22 #63

I understand that. cab67 May 22 #69

I will have to see the ways you criticize Netatanyahu to respond to you with any kind of objectivity Beastly Boy May 22 #87

Gosh, I criticize Netanyahu a lot and I'm never called antisemitic. yardwork May 22 #107

I stopped posting about it a while ago. cab67 May 22 #131

I'm sorry that happened to you. yardwork May 22 #135

Not from another country IronLionZion May 22 #17

It looks like to me Andy Canuck May 22 #23

Yep. I don't condone killing but I can understand people acting out in response to what is happening to Gaza LymphocyteLover May 22 #27

Do I deserve to be gunned down? yardwork May 22 #32

You don't deserve it, of course not LymphocyteLover May 22 #34

So if I am gunned down you will understand the killer's motivations? yardwork May 22 #37

Understanding why someone takes a particular course of action is very different than condoning it. Very different. TheRickles May 22 #49

The word "understandable" implies agreement. yardwork May 22 #52

Not to me it doesn't. If we can understand what are the motivations behind horrible actions like this, TheRickles May 22 #114

My mistake. yardwork May 22 #115

I appreciate your acknowledgement of this. TheRickles May 22 #118

understanding motivations is different from understanding in a forgiving way. I meant the former. LymphocyteLover May 22 #127

How is this terrorist attack, mcar May 22 #100

If We Can't Understand It RobinA May 23 #147

I've always tried to understand JustAnotherGen May 23 #152

So it's OK to murder random people outside a Jewish museum? mcar May 22 #68

did I say it was OK? LymphocyteLover May 22 #128

Acting out on Jewish people in the US Mossfern May 22 #79

i can't understand anyone wanting to murder two innocent people cabotnn22 May 22 #94

How would the killer know they were Israeli government employees? yardwork May 22 #29

Excellent post malaise May 22 #31

You've also said Jews - not Israelis, but Jews globally - have "collective guilt" Sympthsical May 22 #65

The silence re atrocities against the Palestinian people malaise May 22 #70

The idea of collective guilt of any race is literally Nazism Sympthsical May 22 #83

What is collective punishment? n/t malaise May 22 #95

After 9/11, we criticized people on the right mcar May 22 #104

In the context of this thread, I was hoping to hear that you are against antisemitism. Beastly Boy May 22 #78

me too Mossfern May 22 #85

In th context of 58,000 dead Palestinians malaise May 22 #86

This is not the context of this thread. Beastly Boy May 22 #89

How is that a different context? lees1975 May 22 #103

The context of this thead has to do with normalizing antisemitism in the US and how the DC assassination plays into it. Beastly Boy May 22 #112

It doesn't divert. What's happening in Gaza is why those people were there in the first place. lees1975 May 22 #134

That's not the topic of the thread. Mossfern May 22 #136

Excuse me, but what part of not the topic of this thread don't you understand? MarineCombatEngineer May 23 #141

2 young people, working for peace, were murdered in cold blood mcar May 22 #108

I've rarely found explicit supporters of anti-Semitism who condemn anti-Semitic violence or acts of Jew hatred tritsofme May 22 #98

Are you against Mossfern May 22 #84

I hate all the deaths malaise May 22 #88

Very appropriate response Mossfern May 22 #90

I noticed that that member just can't bring themselves to definitively condemn the murder of these 2 wonderful people, MarineCombatEngineer May 23 #142

So not one word about the heinous murders, yes, murders, of 2 innocent civilians by a "freedom fighter" MarineCombatEngineer May 22 #111

He stalked them? Bad Thoughts May 22 #40

He waited outside the Jewish museum and fired into the crowd as they left. yardwork May 22 #47

That was not the other poster's claim Bad Thoughts May 22 #124

WaPo article gives more details. yardwork May 22 #125

He murdered 2 young people in cold blood outside a Jewish museum mcar May 22 #66

See, That Attitude RobinA May 23 #146

The most generous benefit of doubt I can possibly give him Beastly Boy May 22 #73

How do you know that he knew that these two particular people Mossfern May 22 #76

Excellent analysis and conclusion. Oopsie Daisy May 22 #28

"Antisemitism" has been normalized because the word itself has been made meaningless. DetlefK May 22 #30

You were told for your earlier post about these murders. yardwork May 22 #33

Post removed Post removed May 22 #54

Take a break from DU and look in your heart. yardwork May 22 #62

Oh, he's taking a break from DU, MarineCombatEngineer May 22 #117

🤣😂🤣😂🥳🎉 Oopsie Daisy May 22 #126

You just don't know when to stop, do you? OilemFirchen May 22 #71

Thank you. MarineCombatEngineer May 22 #120

yw OilemFirchen May 22 #122

Yep, MarineCombatEngineer May 22 #123

Whew! I guess so he was Cha May 22 #130

This person posted earlier: "Honestly? I don't care that they died." tritsofme May 22 #35

Flat earthers still refers to someone who believes the world is flat. Torchlight May 22 #41

What a load of bullshit. OilemFirchen May 22 #59

Is anything I said incorrect? DetlefK May 22 #75

I have no idea what YOU have been told. OilemFirchen May 22 #81

Well, bye. MarineCombatEngineer May 22 #121

No it is NOT "maningless, Detlet. Cha May 22 #132

I Took A Course RobinA May 23 #150

One side conflates support for the Palestinians with terrorism and antisemitism, this this misguided man just.... FadedMullet May 22 #38

Some support for Palestinians IS terrorism and antisemitism. yardwork May 22 #42

There's nothing to conflate. It's what happened. It's who these people are. tritsofme May 22 #44

Yardwork's post above uses the term "some support" and therefore avoids lumping everyone who supports..... FadedMullet May 22 #51

Thanks for acknowledging my care to use "some." yardwork May 22 #58

The people who conflate the support for Palestinians with terrorism Dorian Gray May 22 #119

Disagree RobinA May 23 #151

I'm sorry you were raised to be suspicious of palestinians Dorian Gray May 23 #158

I agree, I wish the residents of Gaza would show a united front against Hamas, I have issue Shellback Squid May 22 #74

When residents of Gaza speak against Hamas they get murdered. yardwork May 22 #77

Here you go Nanjeanne May 22 #82

Thank you! cabotnn22 May 22 #91

Actually, "low-down vigilante" describes him pretty well, I think. WillowTree May 22 #101

Unlike Mangioni's alleged victim, these 2 had no hand in bibi's genocide! SheltieLover May 22 #105

sorry, did I miss the trial where Mangioni's victim was proved to be death case worthy? Skittles May 22 #110

he is a nutcase like Luigi Skittles May 22 #109

100% agree with you Dorian Gray May 22 #116

He's identical to LUIGI. WarGamer May 22 #133

You Don't Consider RobinA May 23 #153

Edgy. BannonsLiver May 23 #161

The antisemitism is out of control Mosby May 22 #137

"Responding to Tragedy with Reason, Not Generalization" noor May 22 #138

Welcome to DU. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz May 22 #139

As a Jew, I've been the paint on the proverbial broad brush all my life. Beastly Boy May 22 #140

I feel the same way .... Mossfern May 23 #143

It's even worse in Europe. Beastly Boy May 23 #145

I'm so sorry mossfern JustAnotherGen May 23 #160

Very good post, welcome to DU. marble falls May 23 #144

Welcome to DU LetMyPeopleVote May 23 #155

I regard "maladjusted" as an appropriate description of anyone who kills in order to make a point struggle4progress May 23 #148