So Daryl Hall went off on a rant about Yacht Rock. Hates the term, don't call Hall & Oates Yacht Rock, etc etc etc

[Miles Archer]

I didn't bother with the link because it was a couple of sentences that I summed up in the subject line.

I happen to LIKE "Yacht Rock." Well, maybe 60 to 70 percent of it, like Jay Ferguson, Christopher Cross, America.

The other 30 to 40 percent is pablum to my ears.

And I don't CALL it "Yacht Rock." Soft Rock, maybe. The term is useful because if I go to Tidal or Amazon Music there are a LOT of Yacht Rock playlists, and I make my own playlists based on the songs I actually like.

"Sara Smile" is a PROTOTYPICAL "Yacht Rock" song. And that's not the ONLY Hall & Oates track that fits the definition, just the first one that comes to mind.

An unfortunate genre name, perhaps, but people seem to be at their happiest when they can label things.

[Blues Heron]

1. It's kind of a douchey term some millennials came up with to irritate their elders

Can’t blame them, we were the ones that gave them the kind of douchey name “millennials” ….in a way they are just returning the favor.

[ms liberty]

2. No it isn't and neither is H&O. What they are is the prototypical blue-eyed soul

A term old enough to have been applied to them when they were new; which I know because I'm that old too.
Yacht Rock wasn't known as Yacht Rock then but it could never be mistaken for blue-eyed soul, since one comes out of the pop music world and the other comes straight outta Motown.
Yacht Rock is Seasons in the Sun and The Pina Colada Song.
Totally different music.

[Miles Archer]

3. So the weakest pop songs in the genre define the genre...

...which is why artists who really aren't "Yacht Rock" cringe when their music is called "Yacht Rock."

Oh, what a twisted web we weave. I play a lot of "Indie Artists" on my radio show and have told them "I will never call you Indie Artists, even though it is an accepted term, because the LITERAL DEFINITION is an artist without a major label deal, and YOUR MUSIC, for MY EARS, is superior to what a lot of artists WITH major label deals create."

[ms liberty]

5. Why slam those two songs as the weakest?

They were both big hits when they hit the airwaves, but they are also prototypical Yacht Rock songs. Poppy, summer songs that are catchy and fun and sound like you'd play them at the beach. They are the first two to come to my mind in that genre, and (bonus points) they're two of the very songs that the term Yacht Rock was invented to describe. You're the one denigrating them, not me. They might not be my favorite rock jam (that would be prog rock) but they have their place.

[Wiz Imp]

8. You're incorrect about what constitutes yacht rock

Last edited Sun May 11, 2025, 11:00 PM - Edit history (1)

Seasons In The Sun and Escape are most definitely NOT Yacht Rock. Who says so? The people who defined the term to begin with. And while they agree Hall & Oates are mostly not Yacht Rock, a couple of their songs qualify such as "Kiss On my List"

Again, this isn't my opinion, this is based on the opinions of J.D. Ryznar, Steve Huey, Hunter Stair, and David Lyons who coined the term and defined it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yacht_rock

I can buy Escape as being kinda borderline Yacht Rock but I've never heard anyone try to call Seasons in the Sun as Yacht Rock - It has none of the characteristics of the genre.

Factors that the four list as relevant to yacht rock include:

-High production value
-Use of "elite" Los Angeles–based studio musicians and producers associated with yacht rock
-Jazz and R&B influences
-Use of electric piano
-Complex and wry lyrics about heartbroken, foolish men, particularly involving the word "fool"
-An upbeat rhythm called the "Doobie Bounce"

On this website (https://www.yachtornyacht.com/) they evaluate hundreds of songs some people may try to define as Yacht Rock, and label them Yacht Rock or Nyacht Rock. I would not argue with the people who actually coined the term for the genre.

Their Top Yacht Rock Songs

Doobie Brothers - What a Fool Believes
Kenny Loggins - Heart to Heart
Michael McDonald - I Keep Forgettin' (Every Time You're Near)
Kenny Loggins - This Is It
Kenny Loggins - Who's Right, Who's Wrong
Toto - Rosanna
Michael Jackson - Human Nature
Al Jarreau - Girls Know How
Christopher Cross - Sailing
George Benson - Turn Your Love Around

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6kVRZHsbV6LZEBiqzSzFvq

[ms liberty]

17. If I was speaking about something I had to look up on Wiki or Spotify, I might agree with you

But I'm speaking of my lived, real world memories and listening experiences, so my definition might not be exactly to the "creators of the term", Wiki or Spotify's, but also I don't feel the need to consult them to explain to me something they "invented" in the early 00's, that I actually lived through and remember surprisingly well! Nice of them to "create a playlist" of Yacht Rock songs and not Yacht Rock songs; I'm sure Spotify will even play them for you, for a price.
But music was not that rigidly compartmentalized by niche genres in the times these songs were created, either. The two songs I chose were, as I said, the first two that came to mind that I would call yacht rock. Certainly Christopher Cross would have been the best example but it's also eminently forgettable to me, and for me, that's a plus.
I can more or less agree with the list as you've clipped as being yacht rock. At the time those songs came out, both George Benson and Al Jarreau were classified and filed under Jazz, which was confusing for customers when those songs started up the charts. When those albums were released; jazz had a crossover thing going and a lot of jazz artists were getting a good bit of airplay.

[RobinA]

35. Well, I'm A Boomer

and I did have to look up yacht rock on Wiki. Only to find that Thriller is yacht rock? I despise most soft rock, which is what most of these listed as yacht rock seem to be. But Thriller?

[ms liberty]

37. Yea, I'm a boomer too. I see it as a retroactive category name created for a satellite radio station

And the only time I listen to it is when I want to hear the song from my favorites list that my radio alerted me they're about to play

[Diamond_Dog]

28. ++++yes

[True Dough]

4. I'm viewing this thread

with Private Eyes. They're watching you. They see your every move.

[ms liberty]

6. A DU'zy for you!

[Blue Owl]

7. I think it's safe to say Donald Fagen of Steely Dan is also not fond of the genre

[RobinA]

36. Steely Dan

was not yacht rock.

[GP6971]

10. Probably not.

[GP6971]

13. You're so funny!!!

[hlthe2b]

11. The moniker is silly but I like a lot of the music...

To term them "Yacht Rock" is bizarre and doesn't fit at all in terms of the stereotype...

[ShazzieB]

15. I have no idea what the hell "yacht rock" even means.

I'll google when i get a chance, but it sounds like a silly name for a music genre for me.

[Wiz Imp]

16. From Wikipedia

The term yacht rock did not exist contemporaneously with the music the term describes, which was produced from 1975 to 1984. It refers to "adult-oriented rock" or the "West Coast Sound", which became identified with yacht rock in 2005, when the term was coined in J. D. Ryznar et al.'s online video series of the same name.

Yacht Rock web series co-creators Ryznar, Steve Huey, Hunter Stair, and David Lyons have attempted to apply precision to what is defined as yacht rock, and have been critical of overly expansive definitions of the term. In 2016, they invented the term "nyacht rock" to refer to songs that have sometimes been classified as yacht rock but that they felt did not fit the definition. On their podcasts Beyond Yacht Rock and Yacht or Nyacht?, they have categorized various songs as being either within or outside of the genre. (https://www.yachtornyacht.com/)

Factors that the four list as relevant to yacht rock include:

-High production value
-Use of "elite" Los Angeles–based studio musicians and producers associated with yacht rock
-Jazz and R&B influences
-Use of electric piano
-Complex and wry lyrics about heartbroken, foolish men, particularly involving the word "fool"
-An upbeat rhythm called the "Doobie Bounce"

Ryznar and company have argued that many artists sometimes associated with yacht rock, particularly the folk-driven soft rock of Gordon Lightfoot and the Eagles, fall outside the scope of the term as originally conceived. They have also disputed the use of the term as an umbrella for any song whose lyrics include nautical references, opting for the term "marina rock" for bands close to the scene but lacking a few elements, such as Rupert Holmes and Hall & Oates. The term's inventors consider Michael McDonald the most influential yacht rock artist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yacht_rock

[ProfessorGAC]

20. Kind Of Sketchy Definition

- From the late 70s forward, how much rock didn't have high production values?
- Toto (Rosanna) didn't "use" LA studio musicians. It was a band of studio cats that decided to write & play their own stuff. Rosanna also didn't have electric piano on it
- A good third of everything released in the 80s had jazz or R&B influences. Talking Heads were heavily influenced by R&B, had impeccable production, and used studio cats, but wouldn't fit the moniker. Because they were from New York?
- I don't have a counter to heartbroken men & "fool" except that it's so specific to be used as a general guideline.
Sounds like those 4 guys were looking for a justification for a pseudo-genre they thought up.

[Wiz Imp]

24. "Sounds like those 4 guys were looking for a justification for a pseudo-genre they thought up"

That may be true, but given they were the ones who first came up with the term, I'd say that is their perfect right to do so. If people disagree, then rather than try to change the definition, maybe those people should come up with their own name for a genre of music which fits their definition - then they can decide what gets included and what gets excluded.

As for Yacht Rock, I've thought it was a stupid name and a stupid definition to describe a "genre" of music since I first heard it. But that said, I will always defer to the people who coined the term as to what is included and excluded from the term.

[ProfessorGAC]

27. And, Your Last Bit...

...is where we disagree. It's a stupid (your word) categorization & being first doesn't add credibility to a stupid idea.
So, I won't defer to their specious definition.

[ShazzieB]

21. Interesting, thanks.

I still don't love the term, though. It sounds like it would mean something elitist, like "rich people's music," lol. Because that's what I associate the word "yacht" with: rich prople.

[AllaN01Bear]

19. never heard of it untill today

[AllaN01Bear]

18. bah humbug ! anything other than jazzz.

[Iggo]

22. It's better than "Easy Listening." So shut up, Daryl.

[Paladin]

25. You beat me to it...

Go count your money and shut the hell up, Daryl.

[Torchlight]

23. Music pretty much stays the same, the labels we give it however, are legion

to the point of dismissal.

So yeah, yacht rock, arena rock, prog rock... on and on and on to the point of drowning out the music. Song and dance has been oversaturated with hip, but meritless labeling.

[Mike Nelson]

26. One that came to my mind...

[MichMan]

29. Daryl Hall is an immensely talented musician

He is so much more than his music made with John Oates. Anyone who spent much time watching his show Daryl's House gets a much greater understanding of the breadth of his talent.

[ms liberty]

31. Did you see the rpisode with Darius Rucker a few years ago?

They were so good,, they had a real chemistry and sound.

[MichMan]

32. He has had so many great guests

My favorite episodes were with the O-Jays and then with Sammy Hagar

[ms liberty]

33. His show is a real treasure.

[Iggo]

34. Yeah, but I step back and look at the entire vibe of "Daryl's House"...

…and it’s hilarious to me to try and argue against the Yacht Rock tag.

[rsdsharp]

30. Back (way back) when I was in radio the genre was officially called Adult Contemporary

Unofficially, it was called Chicken Rock.