Am a "severe" (I get the wrong usage) introvert, don't get Extroverts one bit.

[UTUSN]

Last edited Mon Dec 9, 2024, 09:21 PM - Edit history (4)

Will substantiate in a minit.

*** ON EDIT, "severely speaking" : Respectfully addressed to any wandering stragler:: Here we are on December 9 and this poor OP anciently from NOVEMBER 30 has not been allowed to drop like a rock off the Lounge. OP is BEGGING to let it go to its deserved demise::: No kicking post of any kind, whether passingly profound or piteous. Thank you.
*** Take into consideration that OP did *not* substantiate in any kind of minit. Although OP gets that his best discussions are that way without OP in them.

[Lunabell]

1. Most extroverts are narcissist

And need "audience" approval. Some are just funny, outgoing and positive. But, the majority I have met have a need for people to like them. My sister, who in her younger years wanted to be an actress, is one. She has one of those, "Look at me!" personalities.

[UTUSN]

2. I sort of think it's about introvert one-on-one vs extrovert one-want-millions

[highplainsdem]

5. That's as incredibly wrong/unfair to extroverts as saying "introverts are selfish and care only about themselves" would

be to introverts.

Acknowledging that there are introverts and extroverts is one thing - though IMO most people are a mix of both and can act as either depending on the situation.

But it's wrong, unfair and silly to be judgmental about it.

And FWIW, there are a lot of introverted actors. Google it.

I had two actress roommates for a while when I lived in NYC in the 1970s. Both triple threats - singing and dancing as well as acting. One had gone to Juilliard. The other, a Brit, had originally trained as a concert pianist but then went to the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art.

The Brit seemed very extroverted. My American roommate, OTOH, was great at performances, including impromptu ones - I'll never forget one night when she came home after drinking for hours at a friend's place and woke me up at 2 AM to show me the tap dance routine she'd learned in a class the evening before, pre-drinking - but she wasn't good in most social situations. As I really found out when she wanted to go along with me to bars or clubs, could barely talk to anyone we met, and would complain when I met a cute guy who asked me out and she didn't. I did find out she could be more open with other actor/dancer/singers if they talked only about acting/dancing/singing.

In my experience most fairly introverted people can become very gregarious when around people with identical interests. Groups of science fiction fans, for instance.

IF I wanted to be judgmental and unfair about introverts, I COULD say that their introversion showed they cared only about their own interests and people who shared those interests, and nobody else. But that would be every bit as wrong and silly as saying extroverts are narcissists.

All people have different comfort levels in different situations...and that, IMO, is what most often gives an outward appearance of introversion or extroversion. Catch those people at different times in different situations, and you'd have a very different take on them.

[Lunabell]

7. I said most and maybe I should have said some.

Or a lot. But, I also said some are just fun outgoing people. It's just in my personal experience, most. There are definitely many extroverts who are attention seeking narcissists.

The orange blobfather is one.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covert-narcissist#:~:text=People%20with%20overt%20narcissism%20are,withdrawn%2C%20or%20self%2Ddeprecating.

[highplainsdem]

10. You just linked to an article explaining that narcissists can be either extroverted or introverted. Here's

another one:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/communication-success/201601/7-signs-of-a-covert-introvert-narcissist

Narcissism is a personality disorder and has nothing to do with either extroversion or introversion.

[Lunabell]

16. Yes

And that some extroverts have the personality disorder. In my experience, there are a lot of them. Sorry you don't agree with me. And that's ok.

[highplainsdem]

18. I'll agree that SOME extroverts are narcissists - as are some introverts. But you'd said "Most extroverts are

narcissists" and I took exception to that because it's completely incorrect.

Narcissists are a very small percentage of the population. There's no way that term fits a significant percentage of either extroverts or introverts.

[Lunabell]

19. What part about in my experience is not understood?

[highplainsdem]

20. It wasn't in your very first statement about extroverts here.

Most extroverts are narcissist

And need "audience" approval.

Which is why I responded to it.

Btw, people who need approval from others in most settings are suffering from low self-esteem, not extroversion. People who want approval from a real audience if their profession involves one, including an audience of judges in a competition of any type, are just feeling a normal desire to do well.

But I can see how a typical extrovert wanting to chat might leave an introvert not wanting to chat feeling that the extrovert wants too much attention (especially if they're living or working together, or spending much time together for any reason), even if the extrovert is just being sociable.

[Lunabell]

21. You obviously didn't read the whole thing.

[highplainsdem]

22. I did. You started with a blanket statement harshly critical of extroverts, and wrongly critical. If

you saw someone here post a message beginning "Most women are..." and saying something very judgmental and incorrect about women, would you shrug it off as "okay" if they later added it was based on their personal experience?

Given that only a tiny fraction of the population are narcissists and probably half the population would tend to seem more extroverted than introverted, the odds that most of the extroverts you met are narcissists are really poor.

Which is why I added the last paragraph in reply 20, because I can see an introvert misreading an extrovert, and that being much more likely than most of those extroverts being narcissists.

[Lunabell]

23. Fine.

Last edited Sun Dec 1, 2024, 03:33 AM - Edit history (3)

So, ok. You are right and I am wrong. I totally did not express myself the way you wanted me to do. There. All better?

Peace out.

[BComplex]

27. I'm an introvert, and I totally agree with you, highplainsdem.

I have several amazingly great friends who are extroverts, and I love them. And they love me back!

[highplainsdem]

37. Thanks! I think we all need both types around us. I can't even think of any of the nuclear families in

my extended family that don't have both types, to some degree.

[nolabear]

24. That's absolutely not true.

I was a therapist. Narcissists use people to reinforce their always shaky sense of being entitled and superior. Extroverts draw energy from interaction with others. There are lots of ways each of those can manifest but they don’t necessarily correlate at all.

[Lunabell]

34. Again, I said most.

And qualified it with in my experience. The ones I have known.

Please consider the whole post before calling me incorrect. I thought I made it clear that this was an opinion, not fact.

the majority I have met have a need for people to like them

It was based on personal experience, not a scientific research. K?

[nolabear]

39. Still, not "most."

It’s false info.

[Lunabell]

40. It's anecdotal.

Do you understand what that means? Never mind. I'm done with this subject and you can argue with your device until your fingers cramp. But, I'm done. Good night.

[nolabear]

41. LOL--good night Lunabell.

Stay cool.

[ProfessorGAC]

38. The Numbers Don't Support That Assessment

From the Cleveland Clinic:

How common is narcissistic personality disorder? Experts aren't sure how common NPD is. According to research data, between 0.5% and 5% of people in the U.S. may have it. Between 50% and 75% of cases affect men and people assigned male at birth (AMAB).

Then, there is this from Johns-Hopkins:

One of the biggest questions I tend to ask myself in terms of normality is whether my introversion is abnormal and if extroversion is really the norm of society.

It is estimated that 65% to 75% of our population is extroverted and the other 30% is introverted. Introverts have to survive silently by themselves in a world full of extroverts that scream “This is the norm!”

The math contradicts your statement.

[El-Capitan]

3. As a gross simplificiation ...

Introverts find meaning within themselves. They think more.

Extroverts find meaning outside of themselves. They engage with others more.

No one is purely an introvert nor extrovert. They are more like moods we all have.

[highplainsdem]

8. Gross oversimplification that insults extroverts. You're saying introverts are thoughtful and self-directed and

extroverts are thoughtless and other-directed by comparison.

You're not going to know how much a person thinks or where they find meaning unless you know them really well, including knowing all or most of their influences. If someone who's an apparent introvert gets most of their beliefs from a particular book or writer, for instance, they're not being terribly thoughtful, any more than they'd be if they seem to have picked up their views from a group with similar ideas. An unthinking religious fundamentalist, for instance, is an unthinking religious fundamentalist, whether it's picked up from reading and they never go to church, or they go to church or lessons and never read.

[El-Capitan]

11. "You're saying introverts are thoughtful and self-directed extroverts are thoughtless and other-directed by comparison"

No I am not. That is an illogical interpretation of what I wrote.

Please be offended elsewhere.

[highplainsdem]

13. Please explain how "thinking more" is different from "more thoughtful" and how "finding meaning from

within" isn't the same as self-directed. Qualities you suggest extroverts don't possess.

[El-Capitan]

14. " Qualities you suggest extroverts don't possess."

An illogical extrapolation of what I wrote.

>>Please explain how "thinking more" is different from "more thoughtful

No. I will not. You seem offended and hostile.

There will be no further reply.

[Lunabell]

25. Narcissists will argue with you forever because they can't be wrong.

They can't help themselves.



https://www.drgeorgesimon.com/why-narcissists-always-have-to-be-right/

[El-Capitan]

26. Judging from these and other posts, that one exhibits the proverbial "need to be right."

[highplainsdem]

30. From your previous reply:

>>Please explain how "thinking more" is different from "more thoughtful

No. I will not. You seem offended and hostile.

There will be no further reply.

It's obvious from this new post that you're the one who can't drop it, even if you announce you're doing so.

And your post saying I seem "offended and hostile" itself sounded offended and hostile - even more so in light of your latest comment.

[El-Capitan]

31. You sure need to have the last word.

That response was not for you, but was absolutely about you.

It was in replay to another. So, you are obviously obsessing over this.

I am not the only one to whom you have been nasty on this thread.

You have a nice day. Try!

[Lunabell]

32. A narcissist

just has to narcisist.

I love it when some people fall into the trap and prove the point you are making. They are so into themselves, they don't even see it.

Actually, I shouldn't gloat. It's kind of sad.

Oh, I forgot. They also have to have the last word. Waiting...

[El-Capitan]

35. This poster is an intelligent person who makes some interesting posts about AI and other subjects.

But that intelligence, unfortunately, does not result in self-awareness or humility.

I think it was Einstein who said something to the effect of The smarter one is, the more one realizes how little one knows.

[highplainsdem]

28. LOL! You're so focused on labeling others as narcissistic that you not only incorrectly apply that label

to a group of people it doesn't fit, but

1) object to me pointing that out and insult me in a message announcing the discussion was over, which you rewrote a few times (message 23; your edits are viewable by clicking on Edit History) trying to decide how insulting you wanted to be (your first draft of it had the message title "You are way too invested in being right. Have a great day." and a meme of someone beating a dead horse), and then

2) you give a perfect example of what you're accusing me of by posted this insulting message.

Sigh.

Lunabell, I simply pointed out that extroverts as a group aren't narcissistic. I don't like to see either introverts or extroverts misunderstood and smeared with incorrect labels. I have both personality types among my own family and friends, they're all important to me, and I don't think one type is better than the other. I've been considered both introverted and extroverted at different times.

It's hard to understand, let alone appreciate, both types if you make blanket, negative judgments about them.

[Lunabell]

29. Again, you are correct.

You are absolutely 100% right about everything. You have the approval of everyone. You are important and have everyone's attention. Thank you for your added and valuable contribution. I bow to your obvious superiority.

Have a fabulous day!

[oldsoldierfadingfast]

4. I can be either...

depending on where I am and with whom, the occasion and/or situation and my mood.

[bif]

6. I'm a bit of both

Depending on the situation. For the most part, I'm introverted. But I have a volunteer job at an aquarium and I love telling the history of the building and giving advice to visitors about what else to see in town.

[3catwoman3]

9. I am absolutely an introvert. My idea of social torture is having to go to...

...an event where I don't know anyone. My husband is very good at going up to strangers and introducing himself. I would happily stand against the wall and just watch until it was time to go home.

The main exception to this was my demeanor at my job, that of pediatric nurse practitioner. I would frequently have an appointment with families I'd never met before, and did not find that intimidating at all. I think the reason for not being uncomfortable with this was it was quite clear what was expected of me in those situations - listen to a concern and find a solution for it. I had expertise that people wanted and valued. A purely social situation is less clear cut.

I agree with this from post #5 above - "In my experience most fairly introverted people can become very gregarious when around people with identical interests. Groups of science fiction fans, for instance."

An across-the-street neighbor and I really enjoy each other's company. We both consider ourselves introverts. My husband seems to worry if she and I have not seen each other for a while. He gets together with his friends every week or so for coffee, or a phone chat. My neighbor and I have agreed that neither of us feels slighted, ignored, neglected or hurt if several weeks have gone by without spending time together, and we further agree that if you have a well established friendship, it will thrive even if contact is sparse from time to time.

[bif]

15. Same here

I hate those kind of events. My wife absolutely loves it. She's a social butterfly. I used to tolerate it by drinking. But I was forced to quit drinking six years ago so now I usually skip going to those events, whenever I can.

[highplainsdem]

36. What you said about your job is a perfect example of what I meant. And the differences between you

and your extrovert husband remind me of the differences between my extrovert dad and introvert mom.

As for picking up on friendships again - you're absolutely right that it should be possible, even without frequent contact. Sometimes life makes frequent contact almost impossible (I found that out with years of caregiving). But it doesn't end a real friendship - though it can leave you with a lot to catch up on. I have one email address I've kept for decades for that reason.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

17. As an introvert, I'm grateful for extroverts!

[highplainsdem]

33. I've been called both, at different times. I'm grateful for both personality types, and I think we all

can be either at different times. It's important to avoid applying negative labels to either type. Especially with people we don't know really well. We can make a lot of wrong assumptions applying labels.

Including about ourselves, if we decide we're in one group or the other and let that guide what we do in the future. We can end up closing off possibilities that way. That's especially important when we're young. But since we can keep learning and enjoying new experiences no matter how old we are, it helps to be open to trying new things even if they don't automatically fit what we or others think of as "our type" - whether it's someone who always thought of themselves as an extrovert trying a quiet solo retreat, or someone who always thought of themselves as an introvert going to a party they might normally have never considered.

People have amazing potential.

[electric_blue68]

42. When you're both it's often called being an "Ambivert"....

Last edited Mon Dec 9, 2024, 06:27 AM - Edit history (1)

I only know this bc I was doing a lot of reading about introverts bc one of my friends from my later ?40's over time explained to me she was a serious introvert.

An ambivert is when you really have both characteristics - it may depend on the situation, and people involved. A fair amount of people are like that.

I'd say I'm about 2/3rds extrovert, and 1/3rd introvert. Although my sis thinks I'm more introverted bc I spend a fair amount of time on my art, and crafting. I disagree.

I enjoy being out on the buzzing streets of NYC around people (well, not in a crushing crowd) I get energy from that! I sometimes chat with people on the bus, or subway if they're carrying something interesting, wearing cool fashion, or jewelry, or they say something really interesting, and there's a proper way for me to comment on it

But now after covid 😔 I'm anxious about being around crowds for any medium to long time even though I always mask outside my apt. If it's not crowded outside - where I am not much crowding - I remove my mask.

You're reading a post from someone who enjoyed being in ticker tape parade crowds. Moon Astros, The Yankees, The Mets! So much fun!

I think I can now tolerate more a gathering where I don't know anyone. I 've gotten shy bc often I have felt I didn't (I guess) meet what I considered standards of sucess. Maaaybe I now see at least parts of my life I have contributed to a better society in small ways, but over a long time. That's a good thing.

One good aspect in bigger gatherings w/o knowing anyone is: I know something about a lot of things, and a lot about several things. So I can say something interesting, or informative. If I don't "feel stupid" (it can depend on a group's attitude, ie not being snooty) I'm willing to ask questions, and learn.