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BumRushDaShow

(164,267 posts)
Wed Dec 3, 2025, 08:21 AM Wednesday

November private payrolls unexpectedly fell by 32,000, led by steep small business job cuts, ADP reports

Source: CNBC

Published Wed, Dec 3 2025 8:15 AM EST


The U.S. labor market slowdown intensified in November as private companies cut 32,000 workers, with small businesses hit the hardest, payrolls processing firm ADP reported Wednesday.

With worries intensifying over the domestic jobs picture, ADP indicated the issues were worse than anticipated. The payrolls decline marked a sharp step down from October, which saw an upwardly revised gain of 47,000 positions, and was well below the Dow Jones consensus estimate from economists for an increase of 40,000.

Larger businesses, entailing companies with 50 or more employees, actually reported a net gain of 90,000 workers.

However, establishments with fewer than 50 workers saw a decline of 120,000, including a drop of 74,000 among firms with 20 to 49 employees. The total loss was the biggest drop since March 2023.

Read more: https://www.cnbc.com/2025/12/03/adp-jobs-report-november-2025-private-payrolls-unexpectedly-fell-by-32000-.html



The only ones who might have considered this "unexpected" is the 45 administration and some of the clueless business media.

TARIFFS.

Look at the bankruptcies report that just released - https://www.democraticunderground.com/10143575992
19 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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November private payrolls unexpectedly fell by 32,000, led by steep small business job cuts, ADP reports (Original Post) BumRushDaShow Wednesday OP
But, but, but we're the 'hottest'. sinkingfeeling Wednesday #1
Oh wait, they forgot a zero, it's really 320,000. Damn Biden and that auto pen. twodogsbarking Wednesday #2
Yeah, tariffs and the impending loss of the ACA subsidies... Hugin Wednesday #3
Kick and recommend bronxiteforever Wednesday #4
I heard a segment on NPR's Marketplace markodochartaigh Wednesday #5
Oooof Prairie Gates Wednesday #6
ADP's fault, obviously Simeon Salus Wednesday #7
"Biden got to them" durablend Wednesday #11
MAGA is creating tons of good jobs in small businesses all across the heartland IronLionZion Wednesday #8
LUTNICK: No no- it's not tariffs. The Democrat shutdown hurt numbers. Next year the numbers are going to be fantastic mahatmakanejeeves Wednesday #9
"Unexpectedly" chowder66 Wednesday #10
I caught that too fujiyamasan Wednesday #13
And this is just among ADP customers. PSPS Wednesday #12
It was completely predictable from the moniss Wednesday #14
I thought they always went up. Guess I don't know what "GREAT" is. twodogsbarking Wednesday #15
So of course edhopper Wednesday #16
"So of course...the Markets go up. Because.....?" BumRushDaShow Wednesday #17
Except a rate cut means a slowing Economy edhopper Wednesday #18
Well remember this - BumRushDaShow Wednesday #19

Hugin

(37,226 posts)
3. Yeah, tariffs and the impending loss of the ACA subsidies...
Wed Dec 3, 2025, 08:45 AM
Wednesday

Probably a few other things. It’s a perfect clusterf*ck storm out there for Americans who work.

markodochartaigh

(4,765 posts)
5. I heard a segment on NPR's Marketplace
Wed Dec 3, 2025, 09:10 AM
Wednesday

saying that the economy could lose jobs and still keep treading water, due to the collapse in immigration. The speaker didn’t seem to be a reich-wing apologist, just stating the basic fact that when the population is shrinking employment can shrink and unemployment will stay the same.
I wonder what effects this will have on an economy which has always been based on growth.

It seems to me that 4 years of this and unemployment might be steady but consumer demand, and prices will shrink. Probably the shrinking real prices will be offset by the falling value of the US dollar. It seems to me that this will further concentrate wealth at the top.

IronLionZion

(50,544 posts)
8. MAGA is creating tons of good jobs in small businesses all across the heartland
Wed Dec 3, 2025, 10:09 AM
Wednesday

just in a downward direction

mahatmakanejeeves

(67,779 posts)
9. LUTNICK: No no- it's not tariffs. The Democrat shutdown hurt numbers. Next year the numbers are going to be fantastic
Wed Dec 3, 2025, 10:55 AM
Wednesday

Reposted by Mike Masnick
https://bsky.app/profile/mmasnick.bsky.social

Aaron Rupar
‪@atrupar.com‬

EISEN: Today we learned the private sector is losing jobs & small biz is getting hit hard, & one of the reasons the ADP cites is tariffs. Do you worry about the economic fallout?

LUTNICK: No no- it's not tariffs. The Democrat shutdown hurt numbers. Next year the numbers are going to be fantastic

Dec 3, 2025, 10:13 AM

EISEN: Today we learned the private sector is losing jobs & small biz is getting hit hard, & one of the reasons the ADP cites is tariffs. Do you worry about the economic fallout?

LUTNICK: No no- it's not tariffs. The Democrat shutdown hurt numbers. Next year the numbers are going to be fantastic

Aaron Rupar (@atrupar.com) 2025-12-03T15:13:41.078Z

fujiyamasan

(1,039 posts)
13. I caught that too
Wed Dec 3, 2025, 01:49 PM
Wednesday

The economy has been hemorrhaging jobs for months, due to a number of issues, many of them caused by the willful incompetence of this administration. Who knew tariffs would increase inflation or that it would reduce overseas demand for American goods? Tariffs can be used strategically, but Trump basically wields it as a way to blackmail various leaders or play favorites with those that buy into his shady crypto companies and other interests.

Hell, the only reason the stock market is still strong is due to AI. And tech companies have shed thousands of jobs over the last few months.

PSPS

(15,159 posts)
12. And this is just among ADP customers.
Wed Dec 3, 2025, 01:43 PM
Wednesday

The actual national numbers are permanently embargoed now that trump installed his stooge at BLS. If/when they ever start being published again, they'll be as accurate as ... well, as trump's "medical report."

moniss

(8,516 posts)
14. It was completely predictable from the
Wed Dec 3, 2025, 02:22 PM
Wednesday

very beginning of the tariffs. This is the sort of thing that happens. Combined with a government firing hundreds of thousands of workers that very predictably will have to curtail their spending resulting in a negative impact to the economy. Also the impact of the Federal government cutting hundreds of billions of dollars in government procurement and programs and that also predictably having a negative impact on the economy.

Small businesses always have the negative impacts reflected first because they have less capital and fewer borrowing resources to try to ride things out or adjust. So their response has to be cost cutting usually through payroll since that is typically the largest percentage cost and most immediate in effect. But to a large extent many small businesses will still head to failure and bankruptcy because cutting down to bare bones usually means that revenue will continue to decline because they don't have the staffing to handle the business. Combined with the obvious fact that their initial problem of declining revenue due to loss of sales/customers had nothing to do with "overstaffing" to begin with. But once they run to slashing staff it adds to the "dog chasing its' tail" effect of more people having less to spend and more businesses cutting back because of less spending going on.

edhopper

(36,936 posts)
16. So of course
Wed Dec 3, 2025, 03:55 PM
Wednesday

the Markets go up. Because.....?

(because the fools on Wall Street always ignore the Economy until it bites them on the ass.)

BumRushDaShow

(164,267 posts)
17. "So of course...the Markets go up. Because.....?"
Wed Dec 3, 2025, 04:16 PM
Wednesday

I know your question is probably rhetorical...

But based on CNBC's conclusion - it might mean a better chance of an interest rate cut next week (the odds had dropped for getting any kind of cut after the last released UE and CPI, but now this ADP report is causing concern). It would probably NOT be want they would want - something like a 50 basis points, but probably 25 again.

The lower the interest rates, the less people might get into bonds and would shift back to the "roaring" (bubble) stock market.

edhopper

(36,936 posts)
18. Except a rate cut means a slowing Economy
Wed Dec 3, 2025, 06:32 PM
Wednesday

which means corporate profits will suffer. Which means stocks will fall. When that happens there is a flight to safety, which means Bonds, even at lowers rates. Seen it over and over again.
As I said, they ignore it until it bites them in the ass.

BumRushDaShow

(164,267 posts)
19. Well remember this -
Wed Dec 3, 2025, 07:12 PM
Wednesday

(my handy dandy graphs)



When the "Great Recession" hit in 2008, the rates were stepped down to and eventually hit near 0 (~0.25%). In March of 2009 during Obama's first year in office, the stock market had crashed from a high of ~14,000 in October 2008, down to ~6000.

The rates stayed near 0 for the next 7 years, which was sort of unprecedented. By then, the economy had recovered thanks to various stimulus projects like ARRA... job creation was underway, and the markets came back. That is when the rates were ticked up and QE was being reduced.

The increases continued into 45's first term (I think there were 8 of them), before he started yelling and the hikes were halted. THEN the pandemic hit, the economy crashed, and the UE had skyrocketed upwards to near 16%.



And BAM! Interest rates were dropped back down again.

When Biden came in, he had to spend his 4 years cleaning up THAT mess by pumping out stimulus, which apparently triggered inflation and up the rates went, but down came the UE with that.

Once things stabilized, the Fed has been stepping the rates down to "keep a lid on" inflation and it was just about there getting close to their preferred "2%" (I think it was around or under 2.9%) before 45 came in to toss a grenade into the whole thing.

The tariffs are going to add a variable into how they handle the interest rates because of the uncertainty of how much the bigger corporations are going to "eat" before doing a massive passing on of the cost to the consumers and with an AI bubble underway, we may end up mirroring what happened in the '90s with the dotcom bubble. And worse come to worse, with all the talk of "stagflation", we may repeat the '70s!



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