Full text of European counter-proposal to US Ukraine peace plan

[GJGCA]

Source: Reuters

Below is the text of a European counter-proposal to the United States' draft 28-point Ukraine peace plan, seen by Reuters on Sunday.
The counter-proposal, drafted by Europe's E3 powers of Britain, France and Germany, takes the U.S. plan as its basis but then goes through it point by point with suggested changes and deletions.



Read more: https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/full-text-european-counter-proposal-us-ukraine-peace-plan-2025-11-23/

[The Madcap]

1. Well that won't work.

See Point 27...

[lamp_shade]

3. Damn straight that won't work.

[Fiendish Thingy]

5. #27 is designed to get Trump's support

It lays the groundwork for his Nobel Peace prize.

Unless you meant point #21, regarding giving up occupied territories.

[The Madcap]

7. Nope. I meant 27.

Remember that anything Trump touches dies.

[paleotn]

2. Ukrainian military capped at 800K? With a belligerent nation on their doorstep simply needing some breathing space

to rearm? Absolutely not.

Put it in the circular file. There can be no way Russia gets out of this nearly unscathed. Not without regime change.

[Fiendish Thingy]

4. Russia will never agree

EU membership is in the plan, with Article 5-style security protection from the EU and the US.

NATO membership is not off the table.

Item #27 is designed to ensure Trump’s approval, as it lays the groundwork for a Nobel Peace Prize.

[AZ8theist]

6. Some of these points are laughable.

ESPECIALLY #27
Anything with Dotard as the "head" is doomed to failure.

[Bayard]

8. Yet another ridiculous batch of bullshit

How can all these people continue to forget or dismiss that Russia invaded Ukraine? They started this damn war for no good reason other than Putin's greed and ego. Ukraine is the victim.

Why should Ukraine agree to limit weapons? Who is that supposed to serve? Is Russia told to limit theirs?

It sounds like there will be some reparations, but nothing about Russia getting the hell out of Ukraine--COMPLETELY. There should be no equivocation on that. Annexation is total crap for any country to pull (including the U.S.) Ukraine should not be bullied into giving up their land, by Russia, trump, or anyone else.

Still sounds like they want Ukraine to give up their minerals. No other country would agree to that with their own natural resources.

No nukes for Ukraine. Will Russia give up theirs? Ukraine was promised protection when they gave theirs up previously. Same old lies. If they hadn't given them up, Putin may not have tried to bust their door down this time.

Ukraine deserves and needs to be in NATO. Its not up to Putin. Stop letting him think he's in control of everything. Stop being afraid of him. "Robust guarantees," aren't worth didley. Neither does the, "expectation," that Russia won't invade its neighbors. Are you freakin' kidding me? It looks like the only reason other countries don't want Ukraine in NATO is that they are afraid Russia will come back again, and they'll actually have to live up to protecting each other.

I only see a couple of good things in this document. Ukraine is supposed to get their kidnapped kids back. I'm betting many will never be found, or have been fully indoctrinated by now.

I don't see anything about Russian officials being indicted for war crimes. I don't see where Ukraine's stolen land, including Crimea, is going to be returned. They are still treating them with kid gloves. Russia is broke, and they're military is busted. Its high time to put a boot on Putin's neck, or we'll be seeing the same thing again as soon as he can recoup.

I would really like to see Ukraine/Zelensky's wish list. It still doesn't look like they've had much input in what happens to their own country.



See this thread:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/132297224
Pres. Zelensky is entirely right in calling for justice, and not giving up their land.

[niyad]

9. Counter-proposal? It certainly does not read all that differently.

[maxsolomon]

10. It still means Ukraine cedes the conquered land:

21. Territories
Ukraine commits not to recover its occupied sovereign territory through military means. Negotiations on territorial swaps will start from the Line of Contact.

[Polybius]

11. Any peace plan will likely offer some ceding of territory

[maxsolomon]

13. Unfortunately, I agree.

Unfortunately, not a popular thing to say on DU.

[FakeNoose]

12. That's a big resounding "NO"!

Putin won't give any territory, so why should he be allowed to take anything? When one country does all the taking, and the other country does all the giving, then you can't call it a "swap."

[maxsolomon]

14. It would likely mean "swapping" occupied territory for other areas

that could create a logical, defensible border, for instance areas where Ukraine's forces are nearly surrounded, or natural borders like rivers.

Another possibility is to put infrastructure like nuclear power plants and hydroelectric dams back fully in Ukraine's control.

[FakeNoose]

15. Putin wants something that isn't his: the Crimean Peninsula

I'm sure he'll die before he gives it back to its rightful owner ... Ukraine.

[maxsolomon]

16. He's got Crimea now. You're right; Putin won't give it back.

Crimea was part of Russia from 1783 under Catherine the Great until 1954 when Kruschev's USSR "gave" it to the Ukraine SSR.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_of_Crimea_to_Ukraine

This war is Revanchist at its core - Putin wants to restore the Russian Empire. Ukraine, esp Eastern Ukraine, is "Little Russia".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Russia

Modern usage
The term Little Russia is now anachronistic when used to refer to the country Ukraine and the modern Ukrainian nation, its language, culture, etc. Such usage is typically perceived as conveying an imperialist view that the Ukrainian territory and people ("Little Russians&quot belong to "one, indivisible Russia".[29] Today, many Ukrainians consider the term disparaging, indicative of Russian suppression of Ukrainian identity and language.

It has continued to be used in Russian nationalist discourse, in which modern Ukrainians are presented as a single people in a united Russian nation. This has provoked new hostility toward and disapproval of the term by many Ukrainians. In July 2021 Vladimir Putin published a 7000-word essay, a large part of which was devoted to expounding these views.