Liberal silence has contributed to the present political environment?

[kentuck]

This is just my opinion. But, how many of us have bitten our tongues and remained silent in the last ten years?

Because we did not want to lose a friend or a family member? We did not post our opinions on Facebook or social media because it would make people angry or they would "un-friend" us?

And most of the time it was because of something Donald Trump said or did. People refused to listen to any criticism of him and liberals held off many, many times. Nonsense!, they say. Nobody has been criticized as much as Trump. That may be true but I would say he has not been held accountable for many of his most divisive and hateful comments. Because we wanted to keep our friends. Because we loved our family members and did not want to piss them off.

In my opinion, we were silent when we should have spoken up. I withheld my voice many times when something probably should have been said. We should have been more like Charlie Kirk - taken off the governor and let it rip. We should have spoken up more, in my opinion.

We withheld our free speech when it was needed the most.

And now, we are seeing the consequences of our silence. The most ignorant voices and the most uneducated took the silence as approval of their positions. They were dead wrong. They were preaching the wrong values and we were silent. We should have spoken up even though it would have made them angry and dismissive. Our silence has put our country into a very immoral position in the world and we must pay the price.

Now, we are here.

[SocialDemocrat61]

1. I think the shouting of

extreme leftists has done more damage. Those who play purity tests and will say that Clinton or Biden are just the lesser of two evils, then either stay home or voted Green or other third party on Election Day.

[leftstreet]

3. Those aren't "extreme leftists"

Those are disgruntled Democrats

There is no Left in the US

[SocialDemocrat61]

8. They are not democrats

They proudly proclaim that they hate democrats and are registered green or independent.

[JI7]

13. I also think in cases of many right wingers that speak at colleges

They should ignore or laugh at their stupidity.

But all the petitions and protests to prevent them from speaking just gives them more attention .

Charlie Kirk himself should have been laughed at and ignored.

[walkingman]

38. I think Kirk used religion as his pathway for hate and prejudice.

[kentuck]

40. I thought that also.

Hiding it all behind the Bible.

[Eliot Rosewater]

2. Back in 2016 when the insanity started

I remember posting something about the piece of shit on my Facebook and I got immediate pushback from people that I did not expect to get it from and I realized I better have two audiences on my Facebook, primary audience are people that I know are not remotely MAGA etc. and the other audience is everybody else altogether for basically just family stuff.

Watching what has happened almost all MAGA have chosen the piece of shit over their own family, so there is no right or wrong here.

But I agree with you we have to throw caution to the wind completely now.

[kentuck]

5. I think there are people on DU at this very moment...

..that are afraid to speak up or to post their opinions.

[Eliot Rosewater]

21. Afraid to post them here at DU?

I had not thought of that, if that’s what you mean that we need to start a discussion here about that, if you ever read anything I’ve written you know that I’m the one who sounds the alarm months and years ahead of something happening by predicting that they will do the worst possible thing human being can do and I’m always right almost, and my desire is to get people talking about this shit before it happens not after.

I had not considered this possibility that you’re talking about as to relatively safe places like this, but as I said I am guilty of it myself on Facebook but only with family members I don’t want to risk losing over the piece of shit.

Hopefully we can get people to talk about that here.

[dwayneb]

41. Just my opinion. I don't think it will matter either way - silence or speaking out.

I've been speaking out for decades, since the early 80's at least when it became crystal clear where the Fascist Right was going to take us.

Problem is that speaking out does not change the fundamental structure of our government which is designed to enable a far Right tyrannical minority to control us.

Speaking out does not stop gerrymandering which grants control of the House in many cases to the Fascists. Speaking out does not get rid of the Electoral College which helps ensure that a Fascist is elected to President. Speaking out does not get rid of the over-representation of Fascists in the Senate.

Speaking out is a good thing, sure. It should always be encouraged. But it's not going to change these fundamental facts. And now, we have a Supreme Court which is stacked against us. Over the next year or two we will see if they will uphold the final Constitutional guardrails that are the only things left preventing the Administration from putting the rest of Project 2025 in place. And even if they do, we may find that they are insufficient to protect our democracy.

This may sound pessimistic, but I am really not biased in that way. I am a realist. And I will speak out to the bitter end, this old man will never go gently into that good night.

[Eliot Rosewater]

69. The only way to stop the complete end of our country and democracy

Is if the Republican rank-and-file, the MAGA rank and file, tell Republicans in Congress, both branches, this has gone too far and he must be impeached, if that does not happen he never leaves alive and all of us here today for instance will either be killed, imprisoned or deported eventually.

2026 elections will be a joke because the military and national guard will occupy everywhere Democrats vote.

[Tree Lady]

47. Yes for a long time many of us Bernie

Folks were afraid to post even if we voted for Hillary later because we would get slammed.

[Eliot Rosewater]

68. I'm still waiting for one person who I am describing

To say they were wrong and they are sorry. Haven’t seen it yet not once.

[BeerBarrelPolka]

48. I

I posted my opinion here the other day and had my post deleted.

[70sEraVet]

66. It may have hurt your feelings to have had your post deleted......

But nobody actually threatened you. That's the worry about posting something on Facebook or Twitter. This is a SAFER place.

[dwayneb]

25. The insanity started long, long before 2016

USA has had a strong Fascist subculture for over 100 years, well before WWII. Carried on through McCarthy and John Birchers in the 60's. Sure there were a few swings to the center in the 60's and with Clinton and Obama, but other than that the country has moved steadily to the Right.

The modern upswing that led to MAGA was kicked off in earnest in the decade after Nixon, largely because of their cheerleader Rush Limbaugh. Then the emergence of a figurehead like Trump was just a matter of time.

Reality is that we've never been free from Fascist tyranny here in America. It was built into the structure of our government from day 1. And now with the modern Corporate TechnoState continually monitoring us every single minute of our lives, we are really screwed.

[Eliot Rosewater]

27. And Newt Gingrich, the reason I mentioned 2016 was that was when

The piece of shit walked down those stairs and it became very clear very quickly that there was no limit to what the group we now call MAGA, of which there are tens of millions, would do.

[kentuck]

29. And he used the most basic strategy of all....

Divide and conquer.

[Eliot Rosewater]

32. And we have to be honest about it, it didn't help that we elected one of the greatest presidents of all time

A Black man named President Barack Hussein Obama.

Add to that when he got tired of being told by the piece of shit that he wasn’t a real American, and he made fun of the piece of shit and the piece of shit vowed right then and there to destroy President Obama and America.

Sarcasm of course in that I wouldn’t change a thing. Oh I guess if I could change one thing it would be 60 million Republicans could stop being traitors.

[kentuck]

35. The election of Obama awakened a lot of latent racism in the country.

Even amongst our closest friends, which we never thought were racists in any way. Trump told them it was OK to be racist and to hate those that are different from us.

[dwayneb]

45. Yes it became clear to many more people after 2016 that's for sure

But it was the decades before us that really set up up for that. Americans became complacent living in quiet suburbia pretending that they didn't have to participate in democracy, that somehow everything would turn out OK like in a fairly tale or some Disney movie.

Many people on the this forum probably understood the threat back then, but the vast majority of Americans simply sat back and watched. And while they did that, our enemies took advantage of our complacence. They put together the propaganda engine that began with Limbaugh and went on to Fox and the destruction of the Fairness Doctrine. On through the Tea Party and Gingrich and the other right-wing predators, eventually leading to the unholy birth of MAGA.

[kentuck]

46. When the Republicans sold out to the Tea Party...

...we should have known then and there that they would sell out to anyone to maintain political power, including folks like the MAGA.

[usonian]

4. See my posts. The "Sound of Silence" from leaders is going to get us all killed.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/13244034 TWF
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100220640586 GD

How are leaders, with a handful of exceptions) fighting back against ROTTEN LIES?

NADA, ZILCH, ZIP, NIL, BUPKIS, RIEN

Thanks for nothing.

[dalton99a]

6. Bullies love people who suffer in silence. So they can continue to beat them

[yellow dahlia]

50. Good point.

[Fiendish Thingy]

7. Nah, you're wrong

Keeping the peace at family gatherings is not the source of the present political environment.

The type of silence that has affected our political environment is the silence that comes from voters too cynical, despairing or apathetic to bother to show up at the polls, and those won’t take the time to contact their representatives, but will gladly hand over their personal information to “sign” worthless internet petitions, where their info will be sold, and they will be barraged with fundraising requests.

The silence that clicks “like” on countless internet memes based on falsehoods and misinformation, strengthening the algorithms that produce more of the same, sowing recreational rage-based division and hatred.

But ignoring your drunk uncle’s MAGA rants at Thanksgiving instead of screaming “STFU YOU IGNORANT MOTHERFUCKER!”? Nope.

That has little, if anything to do with the nation’s political division.

[kentuck]

9. I disagree.

It is not just the drunk "uncle". It is the vast world of social media and all its connections. We should have been more outspoken when obvious lies and bigoted views were being shoved down our throats.

[Fiendish Thingy]

11. Outspoken to whom?

Strangers on Facebook and Twitter? The comment section of the NYT?

Do you think that would have reduced political division?

It has nothing to do with how “outspoken” the average Democrat is, and more to do with the fact that Social Media is considered a platform, not a publisher, and so has much more lenient liability standards than a broadcast network or even FOX news.

Elect courageous senators, kill the filibuster, expand the court, regulate social media the way it should always have been.

No shouting necessary- just courage.

[kentuck]

15. Outspoken to those that you chose to ignore...

...rather than to piss off. Rather than say, "You're full of shit", we chose to be silent and let it go. And they grew in the belief that they were right and superior. And we became an enemy to them.

[Fiendish Thingy]

51. Again, I disagree

Telling family members or strangers on the internet that they are full of shit would do nothing to heal the political divide in the nation.

IIRC, the topic of you OP is that, failure to speak out is, in your opinion, the cause of the nation’s political climate.

You know what changes (some people’s) minds?

Legislation and court rulings that protect rights so that women, non-whites and non-binary/cis people can enjoy the same privileges that white men do.

Look at how the majority of folks now accept marriage equality - that didn’t happen by telling people they are full of shit, it happened because it was forced upon them by the rule of law, and they realized their lives didn’t fall apart as a consequence. Those who are still uncomfortable with it fight back, threaten, tell people they are full of shit, meanwhile the law (for the moment) protects the right to marry whoever you choose,

[kentuck]

53. But you cannot get the legislation or court rulings without fighting and speaking out for them.

But when we stop speaking up, we will lose those rights, in my opinion.

We do not gain by stifling our passions on an issue.

[Fiendish Thingy]

58. No one is advocating remaining silent

I’m just saying telling family members and strangers on the internet that they are full of shit doesn’t make change happen- action does.

We didn’t get marriage equality by telling family members and strangers on the internet they were full of shit, we got it by electing people who had the courage to craft legislation, mostly state by state, and who appointed judges supporting marriage rights.

[JI7]

10. This is BS, there is no liberal silence and in fact it's the opposite

we focused on a lot of stupid shit where we should have remained silent or ignored it.

The protesting every right wing piece of shit instead of ignoring them is one thing.

[kentuck]

12. What stupid shit should we have ignored?

I think we should have had more free speech.

[Irish_Dem]

14. We didn't realize how quickly and completely our country would lose its democracy and freedom.

The entire US federal govt could be dismantled in a a few weeks.
Science, education, healthcare all taken away.

And that all three branches of government would be so easily bribed to sell out their country.

We would not have believed it.

[kentuck]

16. We thought people would come to their senses...

..and that ignorance and hatred and division would not rule the day. We were mistaken.

[Irish_Dem]

20. We assumed that the American people would wake up one day.

We also seriously underestimated China and Russia's ruthless and relentless long term war against
the US to degrade and destroy it. And how readily the GOP would go along with them and help them.

[kentuck]

23. True.

That was not within the scope of our discussions.

[Eliot Rosewater]

24. For instance how quickly did we go from Rachel recent past

Talking about the possibility of a dictatorship as absurd as that sounds, and now we have one.

Like I said to the OP my concern is people who say “oh they won’t cross that line” and of course they do every time but also people who won’t be aggressive with their opposition, and again I have been guilty of that myself in the past.

In fairness to me I wear a “woke it’s not the insult you think it is” T-shirt every day and I talk about it every chance I get but I’ll give you a perfect example this weekend a family member is visiting who I do not think would be comfortable with this so I’m avoiding it.

And here’s another problem, another family member who is a member of the LGBTQ community and is with our daughter soon to be married, we hope they can still do that, I showed her something the other day about the piece of shit she says you know I don’t look at that anymore I don’t I can’t do anything about it so I just don’t pay any attention. Sigh

[Irish_Dem]

31. Yes we thought it a bit of hyperbole. But here we are.

I have put distance between myself and MAGA people.
I don't like, love, or respect them.
They are toxic to me.

Yes young LGBT folks are just blocking it all out.
I fear for them.

[Eliot Rosewater]

33. If I had a dollar for every time I was told how ridiculous and over the top

My predictions were right here, well I’d have a lot of dollars.

How was I so good at predicting everything, simple, imagine what’s the worst possible thing a human being could do in any situation and predict they will do that, and they will. I’m not that smart, I just assume they will do it and they do.

The Supreme Court giving a known criminal immunity, lots of folks said that could never happen. Overturn abortion rights, never!

[Eliot Rosewater]

34. Maybe we better all pay attention to another prediction of losing Social Security and Medicare

Creating the requirement to get approval before procedures with Medicare which they are rolling out now, that’s the beginning.

Nothing is off-limits

[kentuck]

36. I think you are right.

It is a very real possibility that the people, at large, will lose everything that has been fought for in the last 100 years. They are in the pot and they do not realize that the water is boiling.

[Irish_Dem]

39. Or they love the idea of turning the US into a non-democratic country.

Getting rid of rule of law and the US constitution.
Becoming more like Russia and China.

Many people are just fine with this.

[kentuck]

42. Yes, they think they are fine with that...

...but reality will intervene in the most cruel ways. No compassion, no empathy, just indifference.

[Irish_Dem]

37. Yep same here.

I knew we were looking at vicious, ruthless psychopaths, and I fully understand what
they are capable of doing. So it was a no brainer.

What was a bit surprising is how quickly everyone folded like cheap lawn chairs.
All three branches of government, education institutions, corporations, CEOs, etc.
And how quickly Trump and his pals could destroy the federal workforce, science,
education, healthcare, etc.

I didn't think so many people could be bribed to commit treason.

It was so quick and easy to dismantle a 250 year old democracy.

[leftstreet]

17. Yeah, they said we had 3 equal branches of government

Apparently it doesn't work that way after all

[Irish_Dem]

22. Yes every single thing we have been taught is pure bullshit.

[fshrink]

18. This is what happens when class warfare is denied.

A generation spent looking at the finger.

[LeftInTX]

19. Email your congress critters daily.

Was just watching Nixon bio on PBS. WH got thousands of telegrams demanding impeachment. Let them know that you are paying attention and that you find it unacceptable. If they don't hear from you, they won't know what you're thinking.

Even if you respond to their SM posts, it isn't the same. They don't know if you are a constituent.

You may not get reactions, but you are doing your job. It will carry more weight than complaining on FB!

Making noise on SM isn't all that helpful unless you connect with correct people.

[kentuck]

26. It may have been better to completely ignore them..?

...rather than to just respond enough to keep stirring the pot? Which is probably all that we ever accomplished, because we changed very few minds. Maybe we would be better to let them fight their wars alone?

Like I say, this is just an opinion.

[Eliot Rosewater]

30. The first time to speak out regards the appearance of the piece of shit

Was in 2015 and 2016 when many on the left were incessantly complaining about Hillary Clinton not being perfect. It opened the door for everything as we all know, imagine thousands or hundreds of thousands of people who heard all of this coming from the left and decided why bother to vote at all it sounds like they’re both the same.

[GreenWave]

28. Way too Conservative Big Media is more likely. They just censor

[Politicub]

43. If only we could speak the right magic words

Then MAGA minds and hearts would be opened with our incantations. So it must be the silent liberals who are at fault for this systemic abuse of power. /sarc

[kentuck]

44. We can agree.

There are no magic words.

But we are where we are.

[KT2000]

49. Example:

I tried to combat the racism and cruelty posted on Nextdoor, just because we cannot let that stand. I have been banned and the racists still have their platform.

[yellow dahlia]

52. Trying to change the mind of someone who has been brainwashed by RW media

is nearly impossible.

It is difficult to pierce their shield of cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias.

It is their cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias that allowed them to absorb the propaganda on RW media.

RW media taps into their grievance and feeds them what they want to hear.

If these people were able to take off their blinders and noise isolating headphones, some would not condone the reality that is being denied them from RW media. Some would never let facts interfere with their narrative. People join cults for a reason.

RW media uses mind control. They get their audience to believe that they are the only ones that "know". Like I said - cult tactics.

I have tried to have conversations with a family member who has been radicalized by RW media (and podcasts). He shouts the disinformation and propaganda at me, as if I don't know of the alternative facts being dished out by RW media. I monitor RW media, I know what they are selling. I know it is lies.

I don't think we should stop trying to inform those around us.

BUT! I think RW media (and podcasts/"influencers&quot are a primary source of the problem.

And, in many cases, the Republicans in Congress have partnered up with them.

[kentuck]

54. Good points.

I would say that we are not loud enough at this time about what Brian Kilmeade said on FOX News about euthanizing the homeless. I think this is a perfect example of what we have been discussing. We have been too silent. We need to be more vocal at this moment. FOX News needs to fire his ass!

[yellow dahlia]

55. Agreed. And everyone with a podium or microphone should

address what Killmeade said.

...in the same way they should be addressing the current lies about radical left violence.

[Iggo]

57. You don't change the mind of the person you're arguing with.

You change the minds of the people who are listening to the argument.

[Bread and Circuses]

56. Nope! I wasn't silent ! Spoke up my entire life.....and Many did too. Worked for equal rights and opportunity

So, if you silenced yourself … that’s something for you to work on.

I wish you well.

I must add that I’ve seen far too many blaming Dems. You can start with blaming Ronald Reagan and the end of the Fairness Doctrine. Followed by media empires promoting shock jocks, first in radio and now everywhere. Hate speech makes money because it gets people mad so that they blame ‘the others’. Keep people distracted and mad and they won’t notice that millionaires became billionaires ….

They want culture wars, not class wars.

[democrank]

59. Occasionally a DUer posts something about bringing a knife or feather to a gun fight.

I would bet more than a few older DUers listen to some of today’s tepid responses to what’s happening and find it hard to believe.

Our activism during the Vietnam War, the women’s movement, the Civil Rights Movement and more happened because we were willing to stand up and not only say something but do something. We had some brave, fierce leaders back then. And we had some brave, fierce reporters. I’m not saying we don’t have any now, but we certainly don’t have enough.

I

[Katinfl]

60. We recently moved to a retirement complex in another state.

I have not expressed my views to anyone I have met. I am in NC in a county that votes Dem but am surrounded by bright red counties. In order to meet people and get along, I just think that is the safe thing to do.

Fortunately we have long time friends here (we lived here 20 years ago) that are dems and we are very vocal. But we also have long time friends here that we cannot even mention a political word. Long history there and we have been estranged at times so the best thing is just to stir clear of situations. Who knows? They may have reversed their views after trump, but we are not going there. We are all in our late 70’s, early 80’s, and it just does not seem worth it since we moved back and are re-connecting.

We moved here from 20 years in FL and we did sever some relationships there because of him (and I say him because it is HIM primarily). Just not willing to do that here at this time……….unless we are provoked and have no choice. Then all bets are off.

[ancianita]

61. Nah, I'm not in that "how many of us" nor the "we" that you gradually slide into. This is doubt talk.

It is more neurotic to blame ourselves for the free will decisions of American who exposed themselves to disinformation and oligarch owned media, than it is actual political Reality.

If I were you, I wouldn't feel one bit guilty about where we ended up.
The Liberal WE are still right here where they've always been.
And the millions throughout all 50 states should show you that liberal thought is growing.

All that you want us to be inordinately responsible for is not on us.
It is directly ON the right wing, OWNED by the right wing who have twisted the meaning of governance into a 'rule of men' power ideology and privatization program over decades.
Where THEY are is all on the Americans who chose to literally buy politicians into that power & privatization ideology, and ON those who lacked objectivity, got played by power mongers, and voted for them.

Many Americans are changing their minds. The evidence is in all the millions of protesters and the special election wins and the issue polling.

You're right to be worried if you only base your opinion on silence as a kind of character failure of liberals.

[kentuck]

64. I don't think it is a character failure of liberals...

Quite the contrary, I think we were silent many times because we did not want to lose friends or cause dissension in our families. That is a sign of character.

But, in hindsight, I think the best way to compete with free speech is more free speech. We did not speak up often enough or loud enough in many instances, in my opinion.

Also, Trump and MAGA want to use the murder of Kirk to further their authoritarian goals.

We have no choice but to speak up. No matter whose feelings are hurt.

[ancianita]

67. Not all hindsight is 20-20.

I agree with everything you say about liberals, except the part where you agree with kentuck that we didn't speak up enough.

I've been into politics since the LBJ Nixon years. So like most liberals I've witnessed and supported
the Civil Rights Movement,
the anti-apartheid movement (in which I did my part for disinvesting #35 million from the AFT Local #1 pension fund),
the Million Man marches on DC,
the March for Our Lives movement against the NRA and US gun policy,
the Moral Monday marches & sit-ins,
the antiwar activism that's led to the creation of the Campus Antiwar Network and the refounding of SDS in 2006.
and today's Indivisibles protests.

Just because corporate media ignores or biases its headlines against these liberal actions, that isn't in any way caused by liberal silence or liberal unwillingness to speak up.
Across generations it has taken a lot of liberal talk and action to get to where we liberals are today.

[Martin68]

62. No it is not liberal silence that has led to the present political environment. It is that Trump's supporters react only

to gut-level cheap emotion. Democrats have provided good reasons to vote for them - affordable health care, infrastructure maintenance, job training, following the rule of law, updating and improving the energy grid and internet connections, managing inflation, protecting clean air and water - but they are not listening. They hear only the ritualistic memes and slogans spouted by the right wing, and respond only to appeals based on hate and division.

[Puppyjive]

63. I'm not being quiet

I've lost plenty of friends on the other side of the aisle They have called me every name in the book and questioned my veteran status. I've been calling them out for their hypocrisy and they run with their tail between their legs, but still continue spreading their hate.

[Phoenix61]

65. Spot on!

We should have been yelling from the roof tops about Leonard Leo and the Federalist Society, The Heritage Foundation, the Seven Mountain Mandate etc… and their vision for the future of America.