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H2O Man

(77,962 posts)
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 03:45 PM Sep 11

Three Thoughts

I thought I'd post a few quotes from my late friend Rubin “Hurricane” Carter. The first two are the letters he wrote me from his prison cell, often from solitary confinement. The next are from a chapter of a book that a professor at Binghamton University asked if I could get Rubin to contribute after he introduced my daughters and I to the audience there. At times like today I try to keep them in mind.

“The collective call that others are talking about – violence that will ultimately pit brother against brother, family against family, the young against the old – is not an isolated an incident as you my have presupposed, my friend. Because hate, like racism and color-prejudice, is not inherent, because nothing is inherent, but it must be constantly cultivated in order to be brought into being – for hatred demands existence! And he who hates must show his hatred in appropriate actions and behavior, and to a certain extent, he must become hate himself. And hatred, running amuck, is what you are witnessing in America today.”

“Here in this Western world, and particularly in America, it has always been accepted that a man may possess immense knowledge but withoutever having seriously considered his level of being. In America it is acceptable that a man may be a Supreme Court Justice, a Doctor, a National and International Politician, or an able Scientist – and at the same time it is considered legitimate and even fashionable, that this Supreme Court Justice., or Doctor, or Politician or Scientist has the rightr to be a racist, or a petty, egoistic, caviling, mean, envious, vain and malicious snake! The people of America have placed grew value on the level of a man's knowledge, but have no shame on their own low level of being.”

“Hate can only produce hate. That's why all these wars are going on, all of this insanity. There's too much anger in the U.S. People are too afraid, too numbed out. We need to wipe out all this hatred, fear, distrust, and violence. We need to understand, Forgive, and love.”

23 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Three Thoughts (Original Post) H2O Man Sep 11 OP
Thanks. Hope somebody listens and spreads the word. Silent Type Sep 11 #1
Thank you! H2O Man Sep 11 #2
Already MAGA neighbors of mine Saoirse9 Sep 11 #3
Oh, great! H2O Man Sep 11 #5
K&R TheProle Sep 11 #4
Thank you! H2O Man Sep 11 #6
Is it hatred that begets fear or fear that begets hatred? LoisB Sep 11 #7
The chicken or the egg. H2O Man Sep 11 #8
True. LoisB Sep 11 #9
This level of enlightenment is miraculous in someone who suffered such injustice Easterncedar Sep 11 #10
Thank you. H2O Man Sep 11 #12
We used to talk of rehabilitation Easterncedar Sep 11 #14
I remember when H2O Man Sep 11 #15
How malaise Sep 11 #11
It is hard. H2O Man Sep 11 #13
Reality is not much consolation Easterncedar Sep 12 #16
I remember decades ago, H2O Man Sep 12 #17
I want to amplify this message Easterncedar Sep 12 #20
Thank you. H2O Man Sep 12 #22
I remember you counseled me Saoirse9 Sep 12 #21
I remember! H2O Man Sep 12 #23
K&R spanone Sep 12 #18
Thanks! H2O Man Sep 12 #19

H2O Man

(77,962 posts)
2. Thank you!
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 04:13 PM
Sep 11

I suspect that Rubin is saying that everyone needs to spread the word.

I'm trying, but fail at times. There is a guy who I knew in high school -- we had common friends, but were never friends -- who attacks a couple of good friends of mine on FB. I generally respond with a joke at his expense. This week he said he resented my comments, and noted I refuse to admit that the felon testified against Epstein in the 2009 trial. Way to leave yourself open. Although my friends say it was a thing of beauty, I feel bad about it. Kind of. My son said don't, he was begging for it.

Saoirse9

(3,914 posts)
3. Already MAGA neighbors of mine
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 04:39 PM
Sep 11

are assuming that a democrat shot Kirk. I am going to post part of what you posted here and see what happens.

H2O Man

(77,962 posts)
5. Oh, great!
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 04:52 PM
Sep 11

Thank you for that! I would hope that this message from the Hurricane would spread.

H2O Man

(77,962 posts)
8. The chicken or the egg.
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 05:25 PM
Sep 11

Maybe best understood in that it requires both yellow and blue to make green.

Easterncedar

(4,942 posts)
10. This level of enlightenment is miraculous in someone who suffered such injustice
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 06:34 PM
Sep 11

The quotes are inspirational. Thank you.

H2O Man

(77,962 posts)
12. Thank you.
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 09:13 PM
Sep 11

Rubin would later call prison "an unnatural laboratory of the human spirit." In the movie -- which was Hollywood rather than a documentary -- there is an intense scene showing him suffering in solitary confinement. It is very accurate. He spent close to half of those 20 years of confinement in solitary. There were times when he came out so skinny it concerned his supporters.

That brings me to another point. Solitary confinement does damage to the brain. Indeed, in recent studies, brain scans document the organic damage it does. In the "true crime" community today, most people are happy that the freak who butchered those poor college students in Idaho is unhappy about being in solitary. It is likely that a monster like him will get no sympathy. But at any given day, there are large numbers of inmates held in solitary, for a variety of reasons. So a large sum of brain damage. Some of those inmates are eventually released into society, others released back into general population. Yet they have the damage that results in their being more hostile, and less able to control their behaviors. That is a serious issue that lurks just beneath the surface, as few citizens are aware of it.

Rubin came through better than anyone could have hoped for. He was a brilliant man, with an amazing mind. But prison took a toll on him, no doubt.

Easterncedar

(4,942 posts)
14. We used to talk of rehabilitation
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 09:47 PM
Sep 11

Now we speak of prison only in terms of retribution. And we are all the worse for it, in practical and philosophical ways.

H2O Man

(77,962 posts)
15. I remember when
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 10:41 PM
Sep 11

even politicians recognized the need for rehabilitation. And more -- even J Edgar Hoover used Malcolm X's quote about fighting crime in the high chair, not the electric chair.

Long ago, I took a long training presented by Quakers who taught Alternatives to Violence in jails and prisons. The lead trainer was an elderly lady, who had worked with the man in prison for killing Malcolm. The result was that he went beyond saying the other two convicted with him had no involvement, he named the two men who had helped him murder Malcolm. He knew that tis was a terrible crime, and that although he was a brain-washed young man at the time, he bore responsibility for his actions.

I was assigned the county jail when I worked at the clinic. Dealt with individuals and ran groups. There were individuals there who, with intervention, knew how to behave when they get out. I run into some when I go to one store kind of near me. They are able to live without risk of re-incarceration. Others were on their way to state prison, some for the first time, others as if they are returning to their job after a brief vacation on release.

I assume that things have gotten worse in the decades since I did that.

H2O Man

(77,962 posts)
13. It is hard.
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 09:24 PM
Sep 11

I struggle with it at times. Today, three extended family member told me about a fellow attacking my son, my self, my niece, and my late brother on facebook. I saved his life when he was a wayward teen. I pulled him out of the garbage can, when he was approaching a career of incarceration. And for years, he recognized that, and was always both respectful and thankful.

As an adult, he came to me for advice and assistance numerous times. So did his wife. I was always glad to help them.

Sadly, he moved into the South, and joined up with the racist branch of q-anon. He lipped off to me when I told him that no, President Obama was not the leader of the global sex ring with underage children, had not raped little boys, and did not cook babies for a cult sacrifice meal. I haven't spoken with him since, of course. But insulting my relatives bugs me. So I've opted to not bother reading his crap. For if I read it, my response would not be kind. For I know his weaknesses.

Instead, I opted to get out some old letters from the Hurricane!

Easterncedar

(4,942 posts)
16. Reality is not much consolation
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 04:44 AM
Sep 12

But where’s the solace in these mad hateful conspiracies? Why do people like to be so angry and crazy?

H2O Man

(77,962 posts)
17. I remember decades ago,
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 04:09 PM
Sep 12

a very wise Clan Mother saying when the world begins to spin too fast, pull into your own space where you control the pace. That is something that the Enlightened Ones have said throughout time, around the globe. I've been talking about this with my daughter who moved to Europe to escape the hatred and violence the felon encourages. She worries -- a lot -- about her family still here.

We were very, very close to those furious, insane maga-ites reacting in widespread violence. The arrest today should tamp that down. But the murder was planned to spark The Troubles in America.

My re-reading some of Rubin's letters yesterday helped me from "debating" the irrational on the internet. Today, I will focus on playing with my grandson. Everything I must do is for my children and grandchildren. That's an advantage I have as an old fool: I could easily opt to remain where I can enjoy my grandchildren, who I love so much. But as my sister noted, I love them enough that I must soon re-insert myself in the outside world, without fear.

Easterncedar

(4,942 posts)
20. I want to amplify this message
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 07:32 PM
Sep 12

It resonates so much with what my family and I are doing in the face of this. I think you help more than you know..

H2O Man

(77,962 posts)
22. Thank you.
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 10:35 PM
Sep 12

Things were getting very tense. I saw so many maga-ites posting about "civil war" and splattering their hatred on the internet. And that included some messages on other people's stuff that were very anti-me. Gracious.

A long story short: years ago, a good friend of mine died. His teenaged daughter was left without a parent, as her mother was in prison. One sunny morning, I was taking a walk in my pine forest. I saw a tent in a clearing. Being curious, I approached it. My friend's daughter said she had been there a couple of days. I had a pretty good idea that my younger son played some role in this, knowing how his father had been at that age.

There are many rooms in this old house. Besides my four children, we've had a foreign exchange student and at least a dozen "stray" kids live with us. From my experiences as a homeless teen, I was aware that situation has risks. So my kids and I invited her to live with us. While here, she got her GED, driver's license, and enrolled in college.

Her aunt from another state visited when she was here. But she had conflicts with most of her father's siblings. They were thankful to seeing her doing well here. Eventually, as an adult, she moved south to be near her extended family. My daughters and I drove down to visit her. When she had problems, she knew she could call me 24/7 ..... and often did.

We communicated every so often on FB. But after Kirk's murder, she made a post demanding that all "leftists" leave her page. I noted that I am a leftist, as was her father. Where did that leave us? I suggested being against violent people. She responded in an ugly manner. So I left her page. I'm old, and don't have enough energy to invest any in those who talk to me that way.

Saoirse9

(3,914 posts)
21. I remember you counseled me
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 09:12 PM
Sep 12

When a good friend became Qanon. And made me laugh about it when I wanted to cry. She still lives in my town. I am never happy to see her but rarely do anymore.

H2O Man

(77,962 posts)
23. I remember!
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 10:44 PM
Sep 12

It's funny, kind of. Around that same time, my older daughter would tell me about a female her age she met at the boxing gym. It turned out they had some common friends in my daughte's Boston neighborhood. At first, things were fine. Soon, she and her friends began to notice the lies and divisive behaviors. They didn't know how to handle the situation. My daughter said that she knew: she would call her father, who she still mistakenly believes knows everything.

I listened for some time to what they had to say. Then I told the group to look up the features of a specific personality disorder, and get back to me. This wasn't a hard call, or even close to one. They called me back laughing and saying, "Holy shit! How did you know?" I recommended that they slowly reduce any contact with her, eventually none. This worked.

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