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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBest summation on the irony of Charlie Kirk's death that I've seen
Charlie Kirk has long argued that the epidemic of gun violence in America is the regrettable, but acceptable, price of liberty. In his words, the trade-off is a prudent deal, a rational sacrifice to preserve the Second Amendment and protect what he calls God-given rights. (He said these cruel and heartless words at a speaking event in April 2023 I'm just the messenger.)
When children are slaughtered in their classrooms, when congregants are gunned down in churches, when families are erased at grocery stores, Kirks response is not grief but calculus. The deaths are tragic, he says, but worth it. A necessary toll paid at freedoms gate. Thought and prayers.
And so, when he himself was shot at a speaking event in Utah, the hypocrisy was deafening. Here was a man who minimized other peoples agony, suddenly forced to taste the violence he once dismissed. This is what I mean by Second Amendment justice: not that the shooting should be celebrated, not that violence solves anything, but that the logic he defended has folded back on him like a tesseract.
He declared that mass shootings were an unfortunate but tolerable part of liberty. Then he became a victim of the very tolerable violence he worked so hard to normalize.
It is not justice in the sense of moral balance or divine retribution. It is justice in the way a mirror delivers justice: cold, impartial reflection. The gun culture he championed did not exempt him. The bullets he waved away in theory found their way into practice. He is not immune. None of us are.
The asymmetry here is staggering. When Nashville lost six lives, when Buffalo buried grandmothers and fathers, when children in Uvalde were executed one after another, Kirks sympathy was withheld. He hardened his rhetoric. He doubled down. His deal demanded that others bear the cost, while he collected the political dividends of defiance. They are some sweet economic dividends, I tell you. Charlie Kirk gets paid for his support of the Conservative agenda.
But compassion is a muscle. Fail to exercise it for others, and you cannot expect it to be exercised for you. If he offered no tears for the slain, why should the public be compelled to offer them for him?
This is not schadenfreude. It is a reckoning. It is the exposure of a brutal dissonance at the core of American politics: leaders who protect the idea of rights while sacrificing the reality of lives. Leaders who worship an amendment more than they grieve for the children whose bodies become its sacrament. Leaders who declare that freedom requires blood, and then recoil when their own blood is drawn.
Let me be clear: the shooting of Charlie Kirk was a crime. It was not noble resistance. It was not an answer. Political violence corrodes democracy; it breeds escalation, not resolution. But understanding the irony is not the same as endorsing the act. Recognizing the karmic symmetry does not mean cheering it. What it means is this: when cruelty is normalized, when violence is rationalized, when deaths are rendered acceptable by ideology, eventually the logic boomerangs.
That is the lesson here, the harsh and unsentimental truth. You cannot unleash a culture of violence, bless it as liberty, and then feign shock when it arrives at your own doorstep. The Second Amendment, as interpreted by Kirk and his allies, does not discriminate. It devours indiscriminately.
That is the justice of it. Not divine, not poetic merely inevitable.
- Thaddeus Howze

Norrrm
(2,985 posts)OhioTim
(361 posts)gave 2/3 of its time to this scum and 20 seconds to a school shooting in Colorado.
Lanius
(640 posts)Spending time on Charlie Kirk's death potentially attracts more viewers than some no-name kids killed in a shooting in Nowhere, Colorado.

KS Toronado
(21,282 posts)
Cha
(314,374 posts)that "the shooter in Evergreen Colorado is dead and the two victims are improving."
https://www.coloradoan.com/story/news/2025/09/10/3-criticallycolorado-shooting-reportedly-injures-three-at-evergreen-high-school3-critically-injuured/86082124007/
Thank Goodness!
Dear_Prudence
(871 posts)I lived in Jefferson County and my younger brothers attended Evergreen HS. I lived in Orem, Utah too. But, really, we all live in Evergreen and Orem and all those other places...
Cha
(314,374 posts)mean about feeling a connection.
I was born and raised in Denver and my sister was married in Evergreen.. way back.
Bengus81
(9,392 posts)FUCK YOU KIRK......
Jack Valentino
(3,261 posts)he just thought the leopard would eat someone else's face....
sdfernando
(5,901 posts)mnhtnbb
(32,839 posts)they have been celebrating or excusing had finally come back to bite one of their own. Thaddeus Howze sums it up brilliantly:
"But understanding the irony is not the same as endorsing the act. Recognizing the karmic symmetry does not mean cheering it. What it means is this: when cruelty is normalized, when violence is rationalized, when deaths are rendered acceptable by ideology, eventually the logic boomerangs.
That is the lesson here, the harsh and unsentimental truth. You cannot unleash a culture of violence, bless it as liberty, and then feign shock when it arrives at your own doorstep."
Escurumbele
(3,897 posts)Does this help trump avoid talk of Epstein? I don't think so, Epstein is not going away. I know this are not good thoughts, but I have a hard time putting anything past these people. trump has already come out with menacing rhetoric, in Utah the suggestion of setting the flag at half mast, thus implying the death of a hero, which its only purpose is to rattle people's feelings, anger mostly.
Of course that we may never know who, and why he was killed, and like a post here in DU said "when the information of Kirk's murder comes out, it will be a lie."
You are the first on this thread to recognize the crisp evisceration of Thaddeus Howze.
Point by point by point.
He left pieces of them on the floor.
Archiebald
(7 posts)He reaped what he sowed. We always hear about the "good guy with a gun" coming from the trigger-happy right wingers as if we should all be armed and ready to fire off a few rounds. We have too many gunslingers already. Now we see an ironic situation where a gun advocate, who favored a few sacrificial deaths each year in support of the 2nd amendment, reaped what he sowed. It is sad but if you tend the vine of hate you will have to harvest the fruit.
Marthe48
(21,823 posts)Thoughtful post
usaf-vet
(7,688 posts)... it is a loss to humanity.
mnhtnbb
(32,839 posts)I found it elsewhere and have been looking for it among various websites--which link I would use-- without luck. Glad you found it.
MuirHero
(53 posts)Paladin
(31,607 posts)Ray Bruns
(5,600 posts)Said every Republican after a mass shooting.
tonkatoy8888
(151 posts)I learned a new word today. A tesseract is a multi-dimensional hyper cube.
On the topic of the essay, Mr. Howze absolutely nails it. Everyone can quit writing and just quote Mr. Howze when asked about the shooting of Kirk, because this is the first, last, and only explanation anyone needs.
mnhtnbb
(32,839 posts)I wondered how many people would need to look it up! I was aware of it as "a fictional object in the Marvel Cinematic Universe".
Marthe48
(21,823 posts)Insightfulness is wasted on gun nuts
mnhtnbb
(32,839 posts)is the operative word in that situaiton.
ShazzieB
(21,608 posts)I'm not up on the Marvel Universe, but I first encountered the word when I read AWIT back i in 1963 (or thereabouts)!
MadameButterfly
(3,539 posts)I'm not sure I understood it then, but I'll never forget that word from maybe about age 10.
Celerity
(52,015 posts)Solly Mack
(95,690 posts)maliaSmith
(96 posts)Great summation of Kirk's death. He was a rather disgusting person who promoted hate toward others. Now Trump has made him a saint. I fear that more crazies will come out for revenge due to Trump's disgusting speech in WH when he canonized him.
some_of_us_are_sane
(2,025 posts)it blew me away!
niyad
(127,252 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(58,402 posts)Attilatheblond
(7,259 posts)3Hotdogs
(14,558 posts)on behalf of the 2nd Amendment.
Well, fuck hi- sorry . He already got fucked.
Midnight Writer
(24,709 posts)Marthe48
(21,823 posts)When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloomed.
I don't know why.
Amazing essay from Mr. Howze
Moostache
(10,783 posts)Well said.
Initech
(106,328 posts)
SergeStorms
(19,745 posts)Your assassination was "acceptable" in your words. You were the messenger.
gfarber
(98 posts)In the age where the angry get paid,
And the truth gets increasingly swayed,
When Kirk met his fate,
Each side spewed its hate,
While the networks just counted what they made.
When Kirk met a violent demise,
The outrage was monetized lies.
One blamed the deceased,
One screamed for a feast
And both saw their ratings arise.
A bullet made Kirk into lore,
And networks cried, Give us more!
While blood marked the ground,
The spin wars went round
Its good for the markets, not for the poor.
A death lit the screens like a flare,
And vultures flew in from the air.
His blood fed the feed,
Where profit is greed
And pain is just product to share.
bluestateboomer
(534 posts)A perfect summation of the situation. It dispels all the cognitive dissonance we are feeling.
somaticexperiencing
(570 posts)words of well-known sales guru Zig Ziglar when he said,
"Life is an echo. What you send out, comes back. What you sow, you reap. What you give, you get. What you see in others, exists in you.
Reality is essentially a fractal, a repeating pattern, a hologram. Awareness of it can help make it shine. Embodiment helps make it real. Pass it on.
littlemissmartypants
(29,780 posts)I recommend you read The Holographic Universe.
I think that you would like it.
somaticexperiencing
(570 posts)littlemissmartypants
(29,780 posts)
NJCher
(41,420 posts)read it, and it's still sitting on my bookshelf.
littlemissmartypants
(29,780 posts)NJCher
(41,420 posts)Birds of a feather .
Justice matters.
(8,879 posts)It doesn't have to be this way, but the so-called "American Dream" is just propaganda.
You have to be asleep to believe it. - George Carlin
CanonRay
(15,614 posts)and I'm not so sure about that.
littlemissmartypants
(29,780 posts)Raven123
(7,036 posts)Farmer-Rick
(12,076 posts)The FBI released a photo of a skinny white guy wearing jeans and a long sleeve shirt with a flag on it. Let's hope the idiotic FBI got it right this time. But they are so incompetent I doubt the FBI will ever catch him. They may catch someone, but I doubt they will catch THE guy who shot Kirk.
So, yeah we know nothing about the shooter and his politics.
But we do know that this May, Utah opened up college campuses to allow for people to carry guns. Not sure if rifles are allowed too. But I'm sure Charlie Kirk was happy about college kids being able to legally carry guns on campus. He purposely encouraged this. See what happens when you dance with the devil.
CanonRay
(15,614 posts)littlemissmartypants
(29,780 posts)
"Sometimes, the universe just reminds us that it's a powerful thing."
~hamsterjill
cer7711
(570 posts)Brilliant analysis!
:::applause-applause:::
barbtries
(30,767 posts)But this:
republicans can and are very busy doing just that as we speak. we don't even know who shot him but the blame game is afoot along with the incitement to "get" "them" - meaning the left.
Bluetus
(1,544 posts)if Kirk had been approached by the ghost of Christmas Future, who told Kirk that he was going to be assassinated this way, would he have been cool with that?
I doubt it. "When I was talking about sacrifices, I was referring to the children and teachers of Sandy Hook, the children and teachers of Uvalde, and the people of El Paso. THEY need to make sacrifices for MY God-given rights."
Sneederbunk
(16,738 posts)NNadir
(36,589 posts)popsdenver
(481 posts)of Karma beginning to come around.............Trump, his CABAL and the entire group of Republicans are certainly more than deserviing of the Karma Pendulum swinging back in their direction.........
Dawson Leery
(19,482 posts)czarjak
(13,177 posts)Sorry, Charlie, but, hijacking faith for personal gain or political purposes is blasphemy. Heretic applies too, Tool.
Marie Marie
(10,539 posts)DinahMoeHum
(23,171 posts)And I'm sorry that I'm NOT sorry about what happened yesterday.
WmChris
(399 posts)He
F'dOFO Hopefully the gun lobby will take care of his family.
HeartsCanHope
(1,319 posts)ALL of the children I worked with were fantastic. Sure, there were a few that gave me a hard time, but they ALL were special to me.
It would never have been "worth it" to me to have ANY of those children killed to preserve the second amendment. I'm sorry Mr. Kirk was killed--violence is NEVER the answer, but I would have liked to have asked him one question. Which of your children would you sacrifice for the second amendment?
Suite_Me
(2 posts)CHARLIE KIRK: Yeah, it's a great question. Thank you. So, I'm a big Second Amendment fan but I think most politicians are cowards when it comes to defending why we have a Second Amendment. This is why I would not be a good politician, or maybe I would, I don't know, because I actually speak my mind.The Second Amendment is not about hunting. I love hunting. The Second Amendment is not even about personal defense. That is important. The Second Amendment is there, God forbid, so that you can defend yourself against a tyrannical government. And if that talk scares you "wow, that's radical, Charlie, I don't know about that" well then, you have not really read any of the literature of our Founding Fathers. Number two, you've not read any 20th-century history. You're just living in Narnia. By the way, if you're actually living in Narnia, you would be wiser than wherever you're living, because C.S. Lewis was really smart. So I don't know what alternative universe you're living in. You just don't want to face reality that governments tend to get tyrannical and that if people need an ability to protect themselves and their communities and their families.
Now, we must also be real. We must be honest with the population. Having an armed citizenry comes with a price, and that is part of liberty. Driving comes with a price. 50,000, 50,000, 50,000 people die on the road every year. That's a price. You get rid of driving, you'd have 50,000 less auto fatalities. But we have decided that the benefit of driving speed, accessibility, mobility, having products, services is worth the cost of 50,000 people dying on the road. So we need to be very clear that you're not going to get gun deaths to zero. It will not happen. You could significantly reduce them through having more fathers in the home, by having more armed guards in front of schools. We should have a honest and clear reductionist view of gun violence, but we should not have a utopian one.
You will never live in a society when you have an armed citizenry and you won't have a single gun death. That is nonsense. It's drivel. But I am, I, I I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational. Nobody talks like this. They live in a complete alternate universe.
So then, how do you reduce? Very simple. People say, oh, Charlie, how do you stop school shootings? I don't know. How did we stop shootings at baseball games? Because we have armed guards outside of baseball games. That's why. How did we stop all the shootings at airports? We have armed guards outside of airports. How do we stop all the shootings at banks? We have armed guards outside of banks. How did we stop all the shootings at gun shows? Notice there's not a lot of mass shootings at gun shows, there's all these guns. Because everyone's armed. If our money and our sporting events and our airplanes have armed guards, why don't our children?
mnhtnbb
(32,839 posts)There was very little security at the event yesterday where Kirk was killed. Open admission. Walk in from any direction. No metal detectors, no screening of people coming to the event.
I'm not going to comment on his rationale for the Second Amendment, other than to say, in all fairness for his claim to only want to debate, that historians--which Kirk was not--have written extensively about how the Second Amendment came to be and for what purpose it was adopted. There's more to it than the quote from Kirk suggests.
marble falls
(68,584 posts)... yesterday.
Sooo ... where do you stand on his word on it?
RussBLib
(10,157 posts)fasten your seatbelt
moose65
(3,400 posts)Where do right-wingers get the idea that the 2nd Amendment is there so that people can rise up against the government? The very government that enshrined that right in the Constitution? Makes no sense.
The way I read the 2nd Amendment is that the right is protected so that the militia can be called up immediately, to DEFEND the country. Not to fight against it.
Journeyman
(15,385 posts)

PCB66
(45 posts)I really didn't know much about Kirk. He just never came up on my radar.
However, today I saw this link and was impressed at how civil it was.
Kirk was actually respectful of his opponent and admitted when the guy had good points. This is one of the best debates on reasonable gun control that I have seen.
Keepthesoulalive
(1,819 posts)To make you think he was a thoughtful human being. He was neither thoughtful or human.
MerryBlooms
(12,003 posts)Caught on video. So, even though the children are very young, the video is there for their informative years, as are Kirk's words, to go with the video... that those babies were in the front row center to witness.
sir pball
(5,141 posts)
have violent ends."
Romeo and Juliet, Act 2, Scene 6
Fla Dem
(27,078 posts)thought crime
(787 posts)Someone grew tired of the hate speech and the Big Lies. The far right lost a propagandist and provocateur, and they're trying to make the most of it.
Figarosmom
(8,565 posts)He lost consciousness he realized He was the tolerable cost of liberty. I'm sure it would have been comforting.
yellow dahlia
(3,046 posts)Thank you for turning me on to Thaddeus Howze.

Be careful what you wish for. You might get it.
msfiddlestix
(8,132 posts)The one regret I have, is that, the thousands and thousands of victims from 2nd amendment gun violence that lived while their blood flowed from their body, still conscious, knowing they will die and with that electric panic in their minds. The fear, the absolute fear of death creeping up to claim them. This shit was dead before his head fell over. He was lights out within a tick of a watch. He didn't have to experience that slow collapse of your body and your mind. He didn't experience the pure panic that envelops a dying xian 's mind as they hope their god will save them and then, his god does not. He was spared that instant from here to there, why, I do not know. I wish he could have had to experience that pain others have suffered. Now, his own words come back on him. Very Greek.
Norrrm
(2,985 posts)EllisWhy
(23 posts)He's the only one to ever admit that killing hundreds of children was an acceptable cost--a point every 2A zealot has accepted at some level but to my knowledge never admitted. " target="_blank">This is who we are.
Furthermore, by linking the shootings directly to the 2A, he at least implicitly admitted guns were the problem. Granted, I'm certain he didn't realize he'd done this, just as I'm certain the rest of the 2A cult didn't notice because they'd have excommunicated him for it.
DFW
(58,932 posts)But I voted for Trump because he was going to deport the bad guys! Thats not me. I have a family! I have a business! I pay taxes! How can Trump deport me?
Because you voted for him to do just that, thats how.
Kirk said that upholding the Second Amendment meant that there would be some collateral damage in people killed by gun violence. Im sure he never intended to include himself as part of the collateral damage. Its always someone else that is supposed to be affected.
Until it isnt.
But I didnt mean
..
Yes, you did.
mdbl
(7,369 posts)RegexReader
(428 posts)has already begun.
Brainfodder
(7,781 posts)Parade of kissing his remains a reminder that guns are a problem and a solution?
Was this a good guy with a gun?
This was R on R crime so notice the media avoiding it?
Hypocrites, remind them!
lastlib
(26,705 posts)he'd still be alive today, right?
"Good guy with a gun"?
(do I need this? )
Upthevibe
(9,785 posts)mnhtnbb
(32,839 posts)of the perp turned him in. Wonder if they'll claim the reward money? Use it to hire an attorney to offer a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity?
The circus is coming to town. Nice detraction from Epstein.