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mnhtnbb

(32,839 posts)
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 11:02 AM Sep 11

Best summation on the irony of Charlie Kirk's death that I've seen

“Charlie Kirk has long argued that the epidemic of gun violence in America is the regrettable, but acceptable, price of liberty. In his words, the trade-off is a “prudent deal,” a “rational” sacrifice to preserve the Second Amendment and protect what he calls “God-given rights.” (He said these cruel and heartless words at a speaking event in April 2023 — I'm just the messenger.)
When children are slaughtered in their classrooms, when congregants are gunned down in churches, when families are erased at grocery stores, Kirk’s response is not grief but calculus. The deaths are tragic, he says, but worth it. A necessary toll paid at freedom’s gate. “Thought and prayers.”
And so, when he himself was shot at a speaking event in Utah, the hypocrisy was deafening. Here was a man who minimized other people’s agony, suddenly forced to taste the violence he once dismissed. This is what I mean by Second Amendment justice: not that the shooting should be celebrated, not that violence solves anything, but that the logic he defended has folded back on him like a tesseract.
He declared that mass shootings were an unfortunate but tolerable part of liberty. Then he became a victim of the very “tolerable violence” he worked so hard to normalize.
It is not justice in the sense of moral balance or divine retribution. It is justice in the way a mirror delivers justice: cold, impartial reflection. The gun culture he championed did not exempt him. The bullets he waved away in theory found their way into practice. He is not immune. None of us are.
The asymmetry here is staggering. When Nashville lost six lives, when Buffalo buried grandmothers and fathers, when children in Uvalde were executed one after another, Kirk’s sympathy was withheld. He hardened his rhetoric. He doubled down. His “deal” demanded that others bear the cost, while he collected the political dividends of defiance. They are some sweet economic dividends, I tell you. Charlie Kirk gets paid for his support of the Conservative agenda.
But compassion is a muscle. Fail to exercise it for others, and you cannot expect it to be exercised for you. If he offered no tears for the slain, why should the public be compelled to offer them for him?
This is not schadenfreude. It is a reckoning. It is the exposure of a brutal dissonance at the core of American politics: leaders who protect the idea of rights while sacrificing the reality of lives. Leaders who worship an amendment more than they grieve for the children whose bodies become its sacrament. Leaders who declare that freedom requires blood, and then recoil when their own blood is drawn.
Let me be clear: the shooting of Charlie Kirk was a crime. It was not noble resistance. It was not an answer. Political violence corrodes democracy; it breeds escalation, not resolution. But understanding the irony is not the same as endorsing the act. Recognizing the karmic symmetry does not mean cheering it. What it means is this: when cruelty is normalized, when violence is rationalized, when deaths are rendered acceptable by ideology, eventually the logic boomerangs.
That is the lesson here, the harsh and unsentimental truth. You cannot unleash a culture of violence, bless it as liberty, and then feign shock when it arrives at your own doorstep. The Second Amendment, as interpreted by Kirk and his allies, does not discriminate. It devours indiscriminately.
That is the justice of it. Not divine, not poetic — merely inevitable.”
- Thaddeus Howze

97 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Best summation on the irony of Charlie Kirk's death that I've seen (Original Post) mnhtnbb Sep 11 OP
All those dead school children were 'worth' it to Charlie. Norrrm Sep 11 #1
ABC Evening News Last Night OhioTim Sep 11 #27
The American news media only cares about $$$$$ Lanius Sep 11 #49
... Oeditpus Rex Sep 11 #67
NBC evening news gave all it's 30 minutes to his shooting. KS Toronado Sep 11 #56
Update from Evergreen, Colorado. It's now reported Cha Sep 11 #65
Thank you for the update Dear_Prudence Friday #94
You're Welcome.. I know what you Cha Friday #97
Those dead kids were a price that shit head was willing to pay............. Bengus81 Sep 11 #28
Presumably, his own death was 'worth it' to Charlie, by his own words.... Jack Valentino Friday #81
EXCELLENT!!!! 👍 sdfernando Sep 11 #2
I think the resounding quiet yesterday from elected Republicans was from their shocking realization that the violence mnhtnbb Sep 11 #3
When this happened, Pat Tillman came to mind. Are we seeing a case of "sacrificial lamb"? I hope not. Escurumbele Sep 11 #18
ah! NJCher Sep 11 #75
Reap what you sow Archiebald Sep 11 #4
Welcome to DU Marthe48 Sep 11 #20
Well, at least it is one bullet that won't get to kill a defenseless kid in a classroom. I shall not weep and consider.. usaf-vet Sep 11 #42
LINK CousinIT Sep 11 #5
Thank you for the link! mnhtnbb Sep 11 #6
Brilliant summation! MuirHero Sep 11 #13
Nobody will ever put it better than this. (nt) Paladin Sep 11 #7
"It's too soon to be talking about gun control" Ray Bruns Sep 11 #8
Tesseract tonkatoy8888 Sep 11 #9
When I read that mnhtnbb Sep 11 #10
I imagine this essay will be wasted on rwnj Marthe48 Sep 11 #23
Irony is also apparently lost on them. mnhtnbb Sep 11 #51
whoosh NJCher Sep 11 #77
And I was aware of it from A Wrinkle in Time! ShazzieB Sep 11 #70
Tesseracts were/are featured in A Wrinkle in Time MadameButterfly Sep 11 #61
The Tesseract - Marvel Studios' Legends Celerity Sep 11 #64
K&R Solly Mack Sep 11 #11
Very well said. maliaSmith Sep 11 #12
The most cogent quote I'm come across some_of_us_are_sane Sep 11 #14
KNR and bookmarking. niyad Sep 11 #15
The regime is making a bigger deal of Kirk than all school shootings put together and throw in Minnesota lawmakers. . nt Bernardo de La Paz Sep 11 #16
Well, somebody is worried about getting into heaven. Wonder how much worrying he is doing and just what all it's about Attilatheblond Sep 11 #47
or simply stated, so what if you, I or your kids get shot 3Hotdogs Sep 11 #17
What a remarkable piece of writing. I am in awe. Midnight Writer Sep 11 #19
The cadence reminds me of Whitman's Marthe48 Sep 11 #21
I agree with you 100%. Moostache Sep 11 #22
Charlie Kirk had some extremely powerful friends. But he also made equally powerful enemies. Initech Sep 11 #24
Tots and pears, charlie. SergeStorms Sep 11 #25
Spewing Hate gfarber Sep 11 #26
Those last three sentences bluestateboomer Sep 11 #29
the lessons of karma and the "golden rule" are basically one and the same. curious that this is reflected also in the somaticexperiencing Sep 11 #30
If you haven't already... littlemissmartypants Sep 11 #35
Thank you! somaticexperiencing Sep 11 #48
My pleasure, somaticexperiencing. ❤️ littlemissmartypants Sep 11 #50
bought that book a long time ago NJCher Friday #83
Me, too. Our friendship makes more sense every day. ❤️🪄💫 littlemissmartypants Friday #84
Yep NJCher Friday #86
The curse of a nation built on the bloody genocide of its previous inhabitants. Justice matters. Sep 11 #31
Except that the writer assumes this was political violence CanonRay Sep 11 #32
What disqualifies it? littlemissmartypants Sep 11 #34
I didn't read it that way Raven123 Sep 11 #38
Yeah, we don't know anything about the guy's politics Farmer-Rick Sep 11 #43
Charlie Kirk encouraged his own murder CanonRay Sep 11 #55
Excellent! Thanks!! littlemissmartypants Sep 11 #33
!!! This is the best post I have ever read on this site !!! cer7711 Sep 11 #36
That was really good, thanks for sharing. barbtries Sep 11 #37
Republicans are Always willing for OTHERS to make sacrifices that benefit of the Republicans,. I wonder, Bluetus Sep 11 #39
Remember this post as the whitewash of Kirk continues. Sneederbunk Sep 11 #40
Best locution: "This is not Schadenfreude. It's retribution." N/t NNadir Sep 11 #41
Maybe this is just the beginning popsdenver Sep 11 #44
kick Dawson Leery Sep 11 #45
Dis-B-Truth. Preach it, BROTHER! czarjak Sep 11 #46
Certainly put words to my feelings. I'll save my grief for his innocent children. Marie Marie Sep 11 #52
You can sum it up in one word: BLOWBACK DinahMoeHum Sep 11 #53
Live by the gun die by the gun WmChris Sep 11 #54
I was a school librarian for a few years. HeartsCanHope Sep 11 #57
For those posting about Mr. Kirk's statement on the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, here is the entire quote Suite_Me Sep 11 #58
More irony. mnhtnbb Sep 11 #59
Moron couldn't get the difference between firearms and motor vehicles. I imagine he got a practical lesson on it ... marble falls Sep 11 #66
welcome to DU RussBLib Sep 11 #79
Interesting moose65 Friday #88
Thanks. Excellent post . . . Journeyman Sep 11 #60
KnR Faux pas Sep 11 #62
Gun debate with Kirk PCB66 Sep 11 #63
Many of Kirk's YouTube videos are edited Keepthesoulalive Friday #90
His own children got to see him die, for what he believed MerryBlooms Sep 11 #68
"These violent delights... sir pball Sep 11 #69
Beautiful. If only. Fla Dem Sep 11 #71
Nice, but probably more attention and thoughtfulness than Charlie Kirk deserves. thought crime Sep 11 #72
I sure hope that the moment before Figarosmom Sep 11 #73
Thank you for sharing this. yellow dahlia Sep 11 #74
TLDR usonian Sep 11 #76
Brilliantly done. msfiddlestix Sep 11 #78
For myself JPK Sep 11 #80
"God-given rights.",,, Must be a weak God if man can take away those rights. Norrrm Friday #82
To be fair, he was (unintentionally) honest.... EllisWhy Friday #85
Reminds me of the Latino fathers who supported Trump and then got deported DFW Friday #87
Well said. mdbl Friday #89
his canonization RegexReader Friday #91
Knew nothing good about CK before his passing, and got nothing since his passing, AINTK? Brainfodder Friday #92
If only poor dead charlie had had a gun that day..... lastlib Friday #93
Kick. N/T Upthevibe Friday #95
So, the Republican gun culture family friend mnhtnbb Friday #96

OhioTim

(361 posts)
27. ABC Evening News Last Night
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 12:31 PM
Sep 11

gave 2/3 of its time to this scum and 20 seconds to a school shooting in Colorado.

Lanius

(640 posts)
49. The American news media only cares about $$$$$
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 02:34 PM
Sep 11

Spending time on Charlie Kirk's death potentially attracts more viewers than some no-name kids killed in a shooting in Nowhere, Colorado.

Dear_Prudence

(871 posts)
94. Thank you for the update
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 10:59 AM
Friday

I lived in Jefferson County and my younger brothers attended Evergreen HS. I lived in Orem, Utah too. But, really, we all live in Evergreen and Orem and all those other places...

Cha

(314,374 posts)
97. You're Welcome.. I know what you
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 05:02 PM
Friday

mean about feeling a connection.

I was born and raised in Denver and my sister was married in Evergreen.. way back.

Bengus81

(9,392 posts)
28. Those dead kids were a price that shit head was willing to pay.............
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 12:32 PM
Sep 11

FUCK YOU KIRK......

Jack Valentino

(3,261 posts)
81. Presumably, his own death was 'worth it' to Charlie, by his own words....
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 12:36 AM
Friday

he just thought the leopard would eat someone else's face....


mnhtnbb

(32,839 posts)
3. I think the resounding quiet yesterday from elected Republicans was from their shocking realization that the violence
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 11:22 AM
Sep 11

they have been celebrating or excusing had finally come back to bite one of their own. Thaddeus Howze sums it up brilliantly:


"But understanding the irony is not the same as endorsing the act. Recognizing the karmic symmetry does not mean cheering it. What it means is this: when cruelty is normalized, when violence is rationalized, when deaths are rendered acceptable by ideology, eventually the logic boomerangs.
That is the lesson here, the harsh and unsentimental truth. You cannot unleash a culture of violence, bless it as liberty, and then feign shock when it arrives at your own doorstep."

Escurumbele

(3,897 posts)
18. When this happened, Pat Tillman came to mind. Are we seeing a case of "sacrificial lamb"? I hope not.
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 12:13 PM
Sep 11

Does this help trump avoid talk of Epstein? I don't think so, Epstein is not going away. I know this are not good thoughts, but I have a hard time putting anything past these people. trump has already come out with menacing rhetoric, in Utah the suggestion of setting the flag at half mast, thus implying the death of a hero, which its only purpose is to rattle people's feelings, anger mostly.

Of course that we may never know who, and why he was killed, and like a post here in DU said "when the information of Kirk's murder comes out, it will be a lie."

NJCher

(41,420 posts)
75. ah!
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 09:49 PM
Sep 11

You are the first on this thread to recognize the crisp evisceration of Thaddeus Howze.

Point by point by point.

He left pieces of them on the floor.

Archiebald

(7 posts)
4. Reap what you sow
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 11:24 AM
Sep 11

He reaped what he sowed. We always hear about the "good guy with a gun" coming from the trigger-happy right wingers as if we should all be armed and ready to fire off a few rounds. We have too many gunslingers already. Now we see an ironic situation where a gun advocate, who favored a few sacrificial deaths each year in support of the 2nd amendment, reaped what he sowed. It is sad but if you tend the vine of hate you will have to harvest the fruit.

usaf-vet

(7,688 posts)
42. Well, at least it is one bullet that won't get to kill a defenseless kid in a classroom. I shall not weep and consider..
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 01:17 PM
Sep 11

... it is a loss to humanity.

mnhtnbb

(32,839 posts)
6. Thank you for the link!
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 11:27 AM
Sep 11

I found it elsewhere and have been looking for it among various websites--which link I would use-- without luck. Glad you found it.

Ray Bruns

(5,600 posts)
8. "It's too soon to be talking about gun control"
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 11:33 AM
Sep 11

Said every Republican after a mass shooting.

tonkatoy8888

(151 posts)
9. Tesseract
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 11:48 AM
Sep 11

I learned a new word today. A tesseract is a multi-dimensional hyper cube.

On the topic of the essay, Mr. Howze absolutely nails it. Everyone can quit writing and just quote Mr. Howze when asked about the shooting of Kirk, because this is the first, last, and only explanation anyone needs.

mnhtnbb

(32,839 posts)
10. When I read that
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 11:53 AM
Sep 11

I wondered how many people would need to look it up! I was aware of it as "a fictional object in the Marvel Cinematic Universe".

ShazzieB

(21,608 posts)
70. And I was aware of it from A Wrinkle in Time!
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 07:30 PM
Sep 11

I'm not up on the Marvel Universe, but I first encountered the word when I read AWIT back i in 1963 (or thereabouts)!

MadameButterfly

(3,539 posts)
61. Tesseracts were/are featured in A Wrinkle in Time
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 06:08 PM
Sep 11

I'm not sure I understood it then, but I'll never forget that word from maybe about age 10.

maliaSmith

(96 posts)
12. Very well said.
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 11:54 AM
Sep 11

Great summation of Kirk's death. He was a rather disgusting person who promoted hate toward others. Now Trump has made him a saint. I fear that more crazies will come out for revenge due to Trump's disgusting speech in WH when he canonized him.

some_of_us_are_sane

(2,025 posts)
14. The most cogent quote I'm come across
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 12:02 PM
Sep 11

it blew me away!

"That is the lesson here, the harsh and unsentimental truth. You cannot unleash a culture of violence, bless it as liberty, and then feign shock when it arrives at your own doorstep."

Bernardo de La Paz

(58,402 posts)
16. The regime is making a bigger deal of Kirk than all school shootings put together and throw in Minnesota lawmakers. . nt
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 12:12 PM
Sep 11

Attilatheblond

(7,259 posts)
47. Well, somebody is worried about getting into heaven. Wonder how much worrying he is doing and just what all it's about
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 01:54 PM
Sep 11

3Hotdogs

(14,558 posts)
17. or simply stated, so what if you, I or your kids get shot
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 12:12 PM
Sep 11

on behalf of the 2nd Amendment.

Well, fuck hi- sorry . He already got fucked.

Marthe48

(21,823 posts)
21. The cadence reminds me of Whitman's
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 12:23 PM
Sep 11

When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloomed.

I don't know why.

Amazing essay from Mr. Howze



Initech

(106,328 posts)
24. Charlie Kirk had some extremely powerful friends. But he also made equally powerful enemies.
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 12:28 PM
Sep 11

SergeStorms

(19,745 posts)
25. Tots and pears, charlie.
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 12:30 PM
Sep 11

Your assassination was "acceptable" in your words. You were the messenger.

gfarber

(98 posts)
26. Spewing Hate
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 12:31 PM
Sep 11


In the age where the angry get paid,
And the truth gets increasingly swayed,
When Kirk met his fate,
Each side spewed its hate,
While the networks just counted what they made.

When Kirk met a violent demise,
The outrage was monetized lies.
One blamed the deceased,
One screamed for a feast—
And both saw their ratings arise.

A bullet made Kirk into lore,
And networks cried, “Give us more!”
While blood marked the ground,
The spin wars went round—
It’s good for the markets, not for the poor.

A death lit the screens like a flare,
And vultures flew in from the air.
His blood fed the feed,
Where profit is greed—
And pain is just product to share.

bluestateboomer

(534 posts)
29. Those last three sentences
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 12:34 PM
Sep 11

A perfect summation of the situation. It dispels all the cognitive dissonance we are feeling.

30. the lessons of karma and the "golden rule" are basically one and the same. curious that this is reflected also in the
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 12:34 PM
Sep 11

words of well-known sales guru Zig Ziglar when he said,

"“Life is an echo. What you send out, comes back. What you sow, you reap. What you give, you get. What you see in others, exists in you.”

Reality is essentially a fractal, a repeating pattern, a hologram. Awareness of it can help make it shine. Embodiment helps make it real. Pass it on.

littlemissmartypants

(29,780 posts)
35. If you haven't already...
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 12:45 PM
Sep 11

I recommend you read The Holographic Universe.



I think that you would like it.

Justice matters.

(8,879 posts)
31. The curse of a nation built on the bloody genocide of its previous inhabitants.
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 12:35 PM
Sep 11

It doesn't have to be this way, but the so-called "American Dream" is just propaganda.

You have to be asleep to believe it. - George Carlin

CanonRay

(15,614 posts)
32. Except that the writer assumes this was political violence
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 12:37 PM
Sep 11

and I'm not so sure about that.

Farmer-Rick

(12,076 posts)
43. Yeah, we don't know anything about the guy's politics
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 01:38 PM
Sep 11

The FBI released a photo of a skinny white guy wearing jeans and a long sleeve shirt with a flag on it. Let's hope the idiotic FBI got it right this time. But they are so incompetent I doubt the FBI will ever catch him. They may catch someone, but I doubt they will catch THE guy who shot Kirk.

So, yeah we know nothing about the shooter and his politics.

But we do know that this May, Utah opened up college campuses to allow for people to carry guns. Not sure if rifles are allowed too. But I'm sure Charlie Kirk was happy about college kids being able to legally carry guns on campus. He purposely encouraged this. See what happens when you dance with the devil.

littlemissmartypants

(29,780 posts)
33. Excellent! Thanks!!
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 12:39 PM
Sep 11


"Sometimes, the universe just reminds us that it's a powerful thing."
~hamsterjill

cer7711

(570 posts)
36. !!! This is the best post I have ever read on this site !!!
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 12:49 PM
Sep 11

Brilliant analysis!
:::applause-applause:::

barbtries

(30,767 posts)
37. That was really good, thanks for sharing.
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 12:50 PM
Sep 11

But this:

You cannot unleash a culture of violence, bless it as liberty, and then feign shock when it arrives at your own doorstep.


republicans can and are very busy doing just that as we speak. we don't even know who shot him but the blame game is afoot along with the incitement to "get" "them" - meaning the left.

Bluetus

(1,544 posts)
39. Republicans are Always willing for OTHERS to make sacrifices that benefit of the Republicans,. I wonder,
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 12:53 PM
Sep 11

if Kirk had been approached by the ghost of Christmas Future, who told Kirk that he was going to be assassinated this way, would he have been cool with that?

I doubt it. "When I was talking about sacrifices, I was referring to the children and teachers of Sandy Hook, the children and teachers of Uvalde, and the people of El Paso. THEY need to make sacrifices for MY God-given rights."

popsdenver

(481 posts)
44. Maybe this is just the beginning
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 01:42 PM
Sep 11

of Karma beginning to come around.............Trump, his CABAL and the entire group of Republicans are certainly more than deserviing of the Karma Pendulum swinging back in their direction.........

czarjak

(13,177 posts)
46. Dis-B-Truth. Preach it, BROTHER!
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 01:45 PM
Sep 11

Sorry, Charlie, but, hijacking faith for personal gain or political purposes is blasphemy. Heretic applies too, Tool.

DinahMoeHum

(23,171 posts)
53. You can sum it up in one word: BLOWBACK
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 03:49 PM
Sep 11

And I'm sorry that I'm NOT sorry about what happened yesterday.

WmChris

(399 posts)
54. Live by the gun die by the gun
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 03:51 PM
Sep 11

He
F'dOFO Hopefully the gun lobby will take care of his family.

HeartsCanHope

(1,319 posts)
57. I was a school librarian for a few years.
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 05:09 PM
Sep 11

ALL of the children I worked with were fantastic. Sure, there were a few that gave me a hard time, but they ALL were special to me.
It would never have been "worth it" to me to have ANY of those children killed to preserve the second amendment. I'm sorry Mr. Kirk was killed--violence is NEVER the answer, but I would have liked to have asked him one question. Which of your children would you sacrifice for the second amendment?

Suite_Me

(2 posts)
58. For those posting about Mr. Kirk's statement on the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, here is the entire quote
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 05:18 PM
Sep 11

CHARLIE KIRK: “Yeah, it's a great question. Thank you. So, I'm a big Second Amendment fan but I think most politicians are cowards when it comes to defending why we have a Second Amendment. This is why I would not be a good politician, or maybe I would, I don't know, because I actually speak my mind.The Second Amendment is not about hunting. I love hunting. The Second Amendment is not even about personal defense. That is important. The Second Amendment is there, God forbid, so that you can defend yourself against a tyrannical government. And if that talk scares you — "wow, that's radical, Charlie, I don't know about that" — well then, you have not really read any of the literature of our Founding Fathers. Number two, you've not read any 20th-century history. You're just living in Narnia. By the way, if you're actually living in Narnia, you would be wiser than wherever you're living, because C.S. Lewis was really smart. So I don't know what alternative universe you're living in. You just don't want to face reality that governments tend to get tyrannical and that if people need an ability to protect themselves and their communities and their families.
Now, we must also be real. We must be honest with the population. Having an armed citizenry comes with a price, and that is part of liberty. Driving comes with a price. 50,000, 50,000, 50,000 people die on the road every year. That's a price. You get rid of driving, you'd have 50,000 less auto fatalities. But we have decided that the benefit of driving — speed, accessibility, mobility, having products, services — is worth the cost of 50,000 people dying on the road. So we need to be very clear that you're not going to get gun deaths to zero. It will not happen. You could significantly reduce them through having more fathers in the home, by having more armed guards in front of schools. We should have a honest and clear reductionist view of gun violence, but we should not have a utopian one.
You will never live in a society when you have an armed citizenry and you won't have a single gun death. That is nonsense. It's drivel. But I am, I, I — I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational. Nobody talks like this. They live in a complete alternate universe.
So then, how do you reduce? Very simple. People say, oh, Charlie, how do you stop school shootings? I don't know. How did we stop shootings at baseball games? Because we have armed guards outside of baseball games. That's why. How did we stop all the shootings at airports? We have armed guards outside of airports. How do we stop all the shootings at banks? We have armed guards outside of banks. How did we stop all the shootings at gun shows? Notice there's not a lot of mass shootings at gun shows, there's all these guns. Because everyone's armed. If our money and our sporting events and our airplanes have armed guards, why don't our children?”

mnhtnbb

(32,839 posts)
59. More irony.
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 05:40 PM
Sep 11

There was very little security at the event yesterday where Kirk was killed. Open admission. Walk in from any direction. No metal detectors, no screening of people coming to the event.

I'm not going to comment on his rationale for the Second Amendment, other than to say, in all fairness for his claim to only want to debate, that historians--which Kirk was not--have written extensively about how the Second Amendment came to be and for what purpose it was adopted. There's more to it than the quote from Kirk suggests.

marble falls

(68,584 posts)
66. Moron couldn't get the difference between firearms and motor vehicles. I imagine he got a practical lesson on it ...
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 07:01 PM
Sep 11

... yesterday.

Sooo ... where do you stand on his word on it?

moose65

(3,400 posts)
88. Interesting
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 09:34 AM
Friday

Where do right-wingers get the idea that the 2nd Amendment is there so that people can rise up against the government? The very government that enshrined that right in the Constitution? Makes no sense.

The way I read the 2nd Amendment is that the right is protected so that the militia can be called up immediately, to DEFEND the country. Not to fight against it.

PCB66

(45 posts)
63. Gun debate with Kirk
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 06:31 PM
Sep 11

I really didn't know much about Kirk. He just never came up on my radar.

However, today I saw this link and was impressed at how civil it was.

Kirk was actually respectful of his opponent and admitted when the guy had good points. This is one of the best debates on reasonable gun control that I have seen.

Keepthesoulalive

(1,819 posts)
90. Many of Kirk's YouTube videos are edited
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 10:00 AM
Friday

To make you think he was a thoughtful human being. He was neither thoughtful or human.

MerryBlooms

(12,003 posts)
68. His own children got to see him die, for what he believed
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 07:04 PM
Sep 11

Caught on video. So, even though the children are very young, the video is there for their informative years, as are Kirk's words, to go with the video... that those babies were in the front row center to witness.

thought crime

(787 posts)
72. Nice, but probably more attention and thoughtfulness than Charlie Kirk deserves.
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 08:12 PM
Sep 11

Someone grew tired of the hate speech and the Big Lies. The far right lost a propagandist and provocateur, and they're trying to make the most of it.

Figarosmom

(8,565 posts)
73. I sure hope that the moment before
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 08:40 PM
Sep 11

He lost consciousness he realized He was the tolerable cost of liberty. I'm sure it would have been comforting.

JPK

(872 posts)
80. For myself
Thu Sep 11, 2025, 11:12 PM
Sep 11

The one regret I have, is that, the thousands and thousands of victims from 2nd amendment gun violence that lived while their blood flowed from their body, still conscious, knowing they will die and with that electric panic in their minds. The fear, the absolute fear of death creeping up to claim them. This shit was dead before his head fell over. He was lights out within a tick of a watch. He didn't have to experience that slow collapse of your body and your mind. He didn't experience the pure panic that envelops a dying xian 's mind as they hope their god will save them and then, his god does not. He was spared that instant from here to there, why, I do not know. I wish he could have had to experience that pain others have suffered. Now, his own words come back on him. Very Greek.

EllisWhy

(23 posts)
85. To be fair, he was (unintentionally) honest....
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 02:05 AM
Friday

He's the only one to ever admit that killing hundreds of children was an acceptable cost--a point every 2A zealot has accepted at some level but to my knowledge never admitted. " target="_blank">This is who we are.

Furthermore, by linking the shootings directly to the 2A, he at least implicitly admitted guns were the problem. Granted, I'm certain he didn't realize he'd done this, just as I'm certain the rest of the 2A cult didn't notice because they'd have excommunicated him for it.

DFW

(58,932 posts)
87. Reminds me of the Latino fathers who supported Trump and then got deported
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 02:40 AM
Friday

“But I voted for Trump because he was going to deport the bad guys! That’s not me. I have a family! I have a business! I pay taxes! How can Trump deport me?”

Because you voted for him to do just that, that’s how.

Kirk said that upholding the Second Amendment meant that there would be some collateral damage in people killed by gun violence. I’m sure he never intended to include himself as part of the collateral damage. It’s always “someone else” that is supposed to be affected.

Until it isn’t.

“But I didn’t mean…..”

Yes, you did.

Brainfodder

(7,781 posts)
92. Knew nothing good about CK before his passing, and got nothing since his passing, AINTK?
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 10:55 AM
Friday

Parade of kissing his remains a reminder that guns are a problem and a solution?

Was this a good guy with a gun?

This was R on R crime so notice the media avoiding it?
Hypocrites, remind them!


lastlib

(26,705 posts)
93. If only poor dead charlie had had a gun that day.....
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 10:56 AM
Friday

he'd still be alive today, right?

"Good guy with a gun"?

(do I need this? )

mnhtnbb

(32,839 posts)
96. So, the Republican gun culture family friend
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 01:07 PM
Friday

of the perp turned him in. Wonder if they'll claim the reward money? Use it to hire an attorney to offer a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity?

The circus is coming to town. Nice detraction from Epstein.

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