My opinion on Kirk...not that it matters.

[LuckyCharms]

Last edited Thu Sep 11, 2025, 11:04 AM - Edit history (1)

1) I admittedly know pretty much nothing about him, except for his name. I knew he was some kind of right-wing asshole, so I assume his beliefs were noxious...but I don't know the specifics of his beliefs, nor do I care. I pay zero attention to people like him.

2) Kirk's assassination was done by a professional, in my opinion. A fully trained professional sniper. I do not buy the notion that "the shooter was aiming for center mass and missed", etc. I watched the close up video, and I knew he was dead instantly. My opinion is reinforced by my belief that the shooter also knew he hit his mark perfectly, as there were no follow up shots to make sure. The precision of that shot astounds me.

3) Just one shot, and then the shooter disappeared without a trace. This was a well planned action, performed by a professional who followed the plan perfectly.

4) I do not feel anything about Kirk's death. Nothing. I don't care. However, I feel for his children, who didn't ask to be born to a shithead father.

5) I understand that Kirk's words and actions hurt a lot of people, so in that sense, I'm glad he is not able to do that anymore, but otherwise, I feel nothing.

6) Everything happens for a reason. I have no idea why he was killed, but I have some opinions that I will not express here, because I am not looking to argue about a person I do not care about. But I will say this...this is a spark that will be used as an excuse to ignite something much larger and much more heinous than the death of one person. It's a piece of a puzzle. And that puzzle is dark, mysterious, and frightening.

7) I believe we should not be arguing over Kirk's death. Instead, we should be talking about the likely ramifications of his death...because those ramifications are ultimately going to be what hurts us.

8) EDIT TO ADD: When the details of the shooter are revealed, it will not be the truth.

[Arazi]

1. Great post. The canonization of Kirk feels like a Horst Wessel event

What happens next is going to matter to all of us, even apolitical types who try to ignore all of this

[Bev54]

63. Yes and the edit to add that we will not be provided the truth if and when he is caught is spot on.

[poozwah]

2. excellent

the reply title says it all!

[elias7]

3. I watched a number of his college visits and debates with students

Although I disagree with the bulk of his positions, he was always respectful, and his arguments were well thought out. For anyone castigating him for extreme views, taking someone else’s opinion is the lesser of two options, especially when you have the ability to go on YouTube and check out some of his Debates and speeches. No one deserves to be assassinated, and I am concerned that people who are not displeased in a similar way to the assassination of the United healthcare CEO is shedding a new light on the progressive mindset.

[Keepthesoulalive]

9. Because you put a bow tie on feces

It is still shit. The things he said about minorities and women were not debatable, they were wrong and inflammatory. No one on the left called for his murder we just aren’t crying insincere tears. His debates were Gish gallop, made up statistics and white supremacy lies. Let’s discuss raising bail money for the man who attacked Nancy Pelosi’s husband. This administration is in the toilet could this be something.

[hjh3rd]

43. While he did not deserve in any respect to get murdered,

his views were vile and tried to stir people up to act against minorities. He was in no way a middle of the road conservative commentator. I feel sorry for his children who have to live with legacy of his activism.

[Cha]

64. TY for Telling IT like it IS... And GUNS!

I can't even believe that post.

[Redleg]

47. His arguments were well thought out?

This is debatable. What arguments could he have for saying the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was a mistake?

[pat_k]

60. See post 59 (Gish galloping and cherry picked "facts" is not being "good" at debate)

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100220628593#post59

[Heidi]

55. Lol about his "well-thought-out" horsesh!t.

Are you even serious?

[pat_k]

59. Gish galloping and cherry picked "facts" is not being "good" at debate.

His "style" of debate was the most insidious way to lie. He "knew" only the bits of history and bible and anything else that supported his vile conclusions. He was also smart enough to know that he was creating a foundation that is a lie because it excludes 80% of reality.

When arguing with another person, he flooded them with his carefully selected bits as fast as possible, then quickly moved to a new flood of cherry-picked "facts." This "style" creates an utterly false pretense of "knowing a lot" and "winning," when in fact the person knows they are offering only bits that support their conclusions and absolutely nothing more. The object is to simply steamroll over any actual facts offered in opposition with a new flood of bullshit.

When offering his monologues, he set up and tore down carefully constructed straw man positions.

He was a vile, dangerous, racist, Christian Nationalist, damaging, and cruel demagogue .

While I grieve the manner of his death as a tragic reflection of the intolerable level of gun violence in our nation – which is 11 TIMES the number of gun deaths per capita in other high-income nations, driven primarily by a firearm homicide rate that is 25 TIMES that of comparable nations* – I do not grieve the loss of a man who called for some "amazing patriot" to bail out Paul Pelosi’s attacker. I do not grieve the loss of a man who was hellbent on making sure this nation did NOTHING to reduce the number of gun deaths.

And I'm with the OP. I fear that this may indeed prove to be MAGA's Horst Wessel. Whether it was, or was not, a "false flag" operation to create a martyr, I have a terrible sinking feeling in my gut that his death will unleash further oppression of, and violence against, those who care about REAL American values -- -- values like human-rights, rule of law, religious freedom, and self-governance, and the thinking underlying those values, among them rationality, compassion as a moral imperative, and scientific inquiry.

*2015 numbers

[ECL213]

75. Proud graduate of the Gym Jordan School of Debate.

[Ocelot II]

4. I'm pretty much where you are on this. I knew of Charlie Kirk,

knew that he was essentially a right-wing troll who'd turned trolling into a formal organization, TPUSA, whose purpose was to convert college-age people into more right-wing trolls. I strongly disapprove of shooting people, even people like Charlie Kirk, so I can't say I was pleased to hear of his shooting - but I wasn't saddened, either; I think the world is a slightly better place without him. But there are plenty more where he came from, so the net improvement is minimal. It's the blowback that concerns me at this point.

I don't know whether the shooter was a trained sniper, military or otherwise, since I know very little about such things. Some of the TV talking heads have said it wasn't that difficult a shot and that it could have been accomplished by almost any experienced hunter with a good scope. But I have no idea. What does seem apparent is that the shooter carefully planned the whole thing, which suggests at least some sophistication if not professional experience. In any event I think that despite the calls to "turn down the temperature" and, of course, "both sides do it," there will be open season on liberal politicians and journalists. Whether it was part of a larger scheme - a Reichstag Fire, after a fashion - I have no idea. Stay tuned.

[pat_k]

61. Me too.

He was a vile, dangerous, racist, Christian Nationalist, damaging, and cruel demagogue .

While I grieve the manner of his death as a tragic reflection of the intolerable level of gun violence in our nation – which is 11 TIMES the number of gun deaths per capita in other high-income nations, driven primarily by a firearm homicide rate that is 25 TIMES that of comparable nations* – I do not grieve the loss of a man who called for some "amazing patriot" to bail out Paul Pelosi’s attacker. I do not grieve the loss of a man who was hellbent on making sure this nation did NOTHING to reduce the number of gun deaths.

And I fear that this may indeed prove to be MAGA's Horst Wessel. Whether it was, or was not, a "false flag" operation to create a martyr, I have a terrible sinking feeling that his death will unleash further oppression of, and violence against, those who care about REAL American values -- -- values like human-rights, rule of law, religious freedom, and self-governance, and the thinking underlying those values, among them rationality, compassion as a moral imperative, and scientific inquiry.

*2015 numbers

[underpants]

5. I'm guessing it's someone who hunts.

[EYESORE 9001]

15. I'm thinking ex- military sniper

In today’s climate, it could be some guy still on active duty.

[underpants]

54. Mmm we'll see. I know many hunters who could make that shot.

I saw 200 yards last night. I’m not sure if that’s been updated

[hamsterjill]

6. Thanks, Lucky. As usual your post is reasoned and grounded.

I agree with you on the skill of the sniper. This was someone who had confidence. They knew the exact moment when to shoot. No one in front of him or movement to create a miss. They were patient and focused.

I find that thinking in contradiction to what is being reported that there were words on the bullets. I fear someone will be set up to take a fall that someone else was paid to do.

Just the muttering of a still half asleep poster here!!! But I always wonder about these things.

[CanonRay]

7. I agree, a professional hit.

But why? I don't believe it was political, sounds more like money, especially with the revelation the the shooter might have been flown out of the country in a private jet immediately afterwards.

[MrsCheaplaugh]

76. Didn't Kirk demand release of the Epstein files last week or so?

I'm wondering if that was a lethal mistake. Totally speculating, but his call to release the files might have made Orange god-king psychopath view him as a traitor. With that demand Kirk made himself expendable, especially when the psychopath needs another distraction.

[Attilatheblond]

8. The canonization of Ashli Babbit by The Felon went over like a lead balloon

and very few people suddenly forgot about Epstein* so the distractions will continue.

Trump has cheap merchandise to peddle and his own skin to save.

Sometimes events are planned. Sometimes things happen that others will exploit, for their own ends.

Time will tell.... or not, depending on the motives of whoever has the reins of the DOJ at any given time.

[fujiyamasan]

73. I think the difference between this and Babbit

She wasn’t targeted. She was basically breaking an entry. It doesn’t elicit much sympathy. Besides she was just another insurrectionist that day out of hundreds.

Kirk’s assassination was exactly that, a targeted killing of a person that had a massive following.

What’s sickening is this media sainthood of him and a neglect of what a loathsome person he was. It doesn’t justify killing him, but it doesn’t help give any context as to how or why it could happen.

[Coventina]

10. I'm hoping the kids now have a chance to not be raised by a Nazi

*Fingers-crossed* for them.

[PatSeg]

11. Well said

I'm inclined to agree with you.

[AllaN01Bear]

12. i finaly had to google who this person was . great post.

[sir pball]

13. They were a good shot, but not a professional.

Throat shots aren't professional. Too unpredictable, and not immediate enough. A marksman trained to kill will aim for the brainstem, which is truly instant–the victim literally goes limp and drops like a marionette with the strings cut, no arching or spasming like we saw with Kirk. And the range was so comically close for someone of that skill, and the conditions so good, that there's no way they missed by two inches.

And if they were going for maximum gore/shock value rather than a clean kill, they'd have put it square in the side of his head…let's just say that would have made what we did see look downright G-rated in comparison.

[Wifes husband]

18. Agree

I am tired of people who apparently have not fired a rifle commenting on this shot. Whoever made the shot actually missed his target. A million people could have made that shot.

[sir pball]

19. My current pet theory

Is a competent but amateur marksman going for that max-gore headshot, aiming square at his temple, but having a rifle zeroed at 100 yards and forgetting to hold over. I took at a look at a .308 ballistic chart and the shot would land about 3.5" low, which upon taking a measuring tape to my own head, would put it right in my throat. Occam's Razor at work!

Yes, I do enjoy target shooting, why do you ask?

[Wifes husband]

27. My point exactly

Not a remarkable shot by a competent marksman

[LuckyCharms]

23. .

"A million people could have made that shot".

Wrong.

One shot with no follow-up, probable carotid hit, destruction of airway, likely internal decapitation of spinal cord, clean set up, clean escape (so far).

Go find me a million people who can do that with no mistakes. And I'm not just talking "skill", I'm also talking "calmness".

Who exactly are you implying never shot a rifle?

[Mr.WeRP]

36. You are way wrong

I am a trained marksman, the lowest rated badge for shooting. When I received my badge, it was because I could hit enough targets with an M16 using a peep site ranging between 50 and 400 yards. With a scope and a high powered hunting rifle, a neck shot at 200 yards is easy, even for someone who hasn’t earned a marksman level rating. Please stop with the nonsense. The FBI has already said the suspect is a college age man.

[LuckyCharms]

38. I'll not "stop with this nonsense".

This is my opinion. May or may not be factual.

I'm looking at the entire picture. The set, the scene, the scenario, and the personality traits required to shoot a HUMAN BEING (not a target), in the proximity of a few thousand people, under stress, with one shot, and being able to keep their nerves in check and escape cleanly.

Jesus Fucking Christ. I have my opinion, you have yours.

Don't fucking tell people not to express their opinions.

[Mr.WeRP]

42. So much for " I believe we should not be arguing over Kirk's death"

You went from 0 to unhinged in seconds.

Whatever bro, have a nice a day.

[LuckyCharms]

44. I'm not your bro, pal.

Buddy.

Boss.

Chief.

Since you called my opinion nonsense, I changed my fucking mind about arguing.

OK?

Bro?

[Mr.WeRP]

50. When not basing an "opinion" in fact

But stating it as if you have authority on the subject, maybe you should learn to accept criticism of your opinion instead of behaving like you can’t handle it. Putting your opinion out there and then going off on a tirade when it’s challenged is awfully similar to a certain group of people often discussed here.

[LuckyCharms]

51. Maybe you should learn how to disagree...

respectfully.

When did I say I have "authority"?

I said it was my opinion.

My opinion is based on my life experiences.

I respect your opinion as a marksman. Why can't you respect my opinion based on my own experiences, which by the way, you are completely unfamiliar with?

[Mr.WeRP]

69. I apologize.

I seek not to argue. Only to point out that pronouncing this a professional job when we know nothing about the shooter is unwise, especially when an armature with a modern weapon could easily make that shot.

I could have been more respectful, and for that I apologize. I have no issue with you personally, and I do respect your opinion.

[LuckyCharms]

74. No problem, Mr. WeRP...

In fact, the more information that comes to light, I'm beginning to think I may be wrong about this being a pro job.

I just don't know at this point, and my opinion may have been premature...I just have no idea now after processing more recent information about the shooter. I hope we find out soon enough, and I hope the official story is the truth.

With the exception of the ballistic aspects, I do feel the same way this morning about the other aspects of my OP.

As a marksman, you would certainly know more than me concerning the ballistics, and I yield to your expertise on those details.

I have nothing against you either, and I apologize as well for being snarky.

I hope you have a great day!

[Beringia]

53. Yes, and Mr Werp should make his own opinion post if he likes

[littlemissmartypants]

45. College aged? That involves a broad range of variation in ages.

Not unlike the broad range of opinions on experience and expertise.

We might be close to beating the stuffing out of this dead horse.

[TheDemsshouldhireme]

67. The expert on MSNBC yesterday

said just what you said Mr Werp. People in military are trained to make that shot with metal sights, with no optics(a scope). Which it appears this guy did have. Was not that hard of a shot according to him.

[AncientOfDays]

14. Can you say martyr?

The right-wing has been looking for a trigger to start a war against the rest of us sane people.

[Katinfl]

24. I agree. The aftermath of this shooting will not be pretty.

I am afraid it’s gonna be open season on all Dems. This is the catalyst and it is being fueled by trump. God help us.

[CrispyQ]

33. The first time I looked up who Kirk was, was when a young man at one of his events asked, "When can we use the guns?"

And the man meant on democrats.

The forum topic was about how the 2020 election had been stolen & Kirk was on stage hosting the event. The man shouted out, "When can we use the guns? The crowd roared in approval & I think Kirk was stunned & realized it was a dangerous turn, & he did tamp the talk down, but there it was, out loud. When can we kill democrats?

[Katinfl]

56. That is scary.

I fear that now we will hear the calls for “retribution” and the rest will be history.

[EYESORE 9001]

16. Until fairly recently, I had only a nebulous awareness of the guy

A couple of times, YouTube would put a video in my feed, and I would watch the ‘debate’. He definitely had the gish gallop down pat.

[3Hotdogs]

17. Thing is, he didn't give a flying fuck

if you and I got killed on behalf of his precious 2nd Amendment.

Fuck him and the horse- aw, leave the horse alone. My beef was with the horse,’s ass.

[homegirl]

20. Kirk is dead and Trump wins again...

MAGA gains a MARTYR

and the media is no longer on the
EPSTEIN CASE 24/7/365!!

[peggysue2]

21. I zeroed in on your item #6

Specifically:

But I will say this...this is a spark that will be used as an excuse to ignite something much larger and much more heinous than the death of one person. It's a piece of a puzzle.

Yes. The Trumpanzees will use this first as a distraction, then as an excuse to further erode the rights of everyone.

The rule has always been: Don't let a catastrophe, criminal incident, whatever go to waste.

It's not as if Agent Orange needs another excuse but he will most definitely wave the bloody flag of retribution on this one.

[rambler68]

22. Insightful thought

Point number 7 is very insightful. Is this the trigger to justify an open violent war on the “left”? Why is it that question rises in our thoughts when a member of the MAGA is a victim but not when a democrat ( Minnesota tragedy) is a victim?

[StarryNite]

25. It seemed like a professional hit.

The shooter could have been a hired hit man with no political investment. He could already be sitting on a beach in a foreign country counting his payoff dollars. If that was the case, who hired him? Who had the most to gain by not only Kirk's death but the message it sent? I don't see where it would help anyone on the left. In fact it seems to be putting a target on every one of us. There's division on the right. Kirk wanted the Epstein files released. Think about the long list of very wealthy people who don't want it released.

[niyad]

26. Excellent post. .and your last sentence is absolutely accurate.

When I heard the news, my first thought was "false flag, and the "response" will be brutal."

[Ritabert]

28. And look at this BS they 're trying to push about the shooter

Ammunition in Kirk Shooting Engraved with Transgender, Antifascist Ideology:

Sources By Sadie Gurman and James Fanelli

Investigators found ammunition engraved with expressions of transgender and antifascist ideology inside the rifle that authorities believe was used in the fatal shooting of Charlie Kirk, according to an internal law enforcement bulletin and a person familiar with the investigation.

The older-model .30 caliber hunting rifle was discovered in the woods near the scene of Wednesday’s shooting at Utah Valley University, wrapped in a towel with a spent cartridge still in the chamber, the sources said. There were also three unspent rounds in the magazine, all with wording on them.

Kirk, 31, was onstage going back and forth with a student about mass shootings involving transgender people when he was targeted, according to videos of the attack. The student has not been publicly identified.

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/charlie-kirk-shot/card/ammunition-in-kirk-shooting-engraved-with-transgender-antifascist-ideology-sources-pdymd1sXXMSlVRhpvR4b

[littlemissmartypants]

46. "Sources" 🙄

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/charlie-kirk-shot/card/ammunition-in-kirk-shooting-engraved-with-transgender-antifascist-ideology-sources-pdymd1sXXMSlVRhpvR4b

Something's up at the WSJ and it ain't pretty.

[pandr32]

29. Everything you said, except...

For not caring about his children. I don't personally know them, but I think their father's murder will be difficult for them. As for his wife--oh well. She'll probably be treated better than other suddenly single moms thanks to her famous, conservative husband.
I also don't think 'everything' happens for a reason. I'm quite confident there is no divine plan, so in this case it did happen for a reason. Someone made it happen--it was not random. As you said, it was a kill shot from a distance by a skilled sniper.
I hope this makes a certain somebody scared shitless. The skilled sniper is out there...somewhere.

[LuckyCharms]

30. I probably worded that poorly.

"Everything happens for a reason".

I was not implying a divine plan (even though it unfortunately reads like that...my apologies).

I was trying to state, as you implied, that this whole thing was planned out to the T. There was a planned, earthly reason for everything that happened.

[Jilly_in_VA]

31. This is the shirt I'm wearing in honor of Charlie Kirk today

[url=https://postimages.org/][img][/img][/url]

[littlemissmartypants]

48. It's really cute.

[some_of_us_are_sane]

32. Well said!

And I absolutely agree, LuckyCharms.

7) I believe we should not be arguing over Kirk's death. Instead, we should be talking about the likely ramifications of his death...because those ramifications are ultimately going to be what hurts us.

8) EDIT TO ADD: When the details of the shooter are revealed, it will not be the truth.

This MURDER CAN and WILL BE spun in any way that suits the parties spreading their own conjectures.

It's one more domino falling................ and it scares the SHIT out of me.

[Harker]

34. 33) Perhaps a skilled amateur rather than a professional.

Your 6) and 7) are spot on. The ripples (or shockwaves) are going to carry for a long time.

[Martin Eden]

35. Great post, and I'm pretty sure you intended #6 in terms of motive

Just to clarify:
All too often, I hear "Everything happens for a reason" in the context of a tragedy like a loved one dying from a random accident or disease. As an agnostic I've always rejected the notion that such tragedies are part of God's mysterious plan. Religious folks may have an emotional need to believe that, but I'll stick to evidence and critical thought.

[LuckyCharms]

41. I agree, Martin. Please see post #30.

[OldBoss]

37. Homer Stokes quote ...

When I read most of the non-DU articles, statements, and comments I can’t help but think of the famous Homer Stokes quote, “These boys desecrated a fiery cross!"

[Vinca]

39. I think professional, too. You can see in that awful video the carotid artery is hit and turning into a fountain.

You'd need to be really well trained to do that from 520 feet.

[waterwatcher123]

40. I agree - this was a professional hit by an expert sharp shooter.

It would not surprise me to find out this was a Russian hit designed to further stir further stir up civil unrest and retribution in the United States. The FBI may frame someone for this murder too given the right's lust for vengeance.

[H2O Man]

49. Outstanding!

Recommended.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

52. Your opinion is similar to mine

I feel neither anger nor happiness at his death. Never really listened to anything he said only knew he was some right winger.

I do recall he said the 2nd amendment was worth a couple of killings or something like that.

Well there you go Charlie. You died for the 2nd amendment.

[Faux pas]

57. BRA EFFING VO

LuckyCharms!

[NoMoreRepugs]

58. Excellent post LC. A skilled shooter with a well thought out plan for sure.

[pat_k]

62. I have a terrible sinking feeling....

He was a vile, dangerous, racist, Christian Nationalist, damaging, and cruel demagogue .

While I grieve the manner of his death as a tragic reflection of the intolerable level of gun violence in our nation – which is 11 TIMES the number of gun deaths per capita in other high-income nations, driven primarily by a firearm homicide rate that is 25 TIMES that of comparable nations* – I do not grieve the loss of a man who called for some "amazing patriot" to bail out Paul Pelosi’s attacker. I do not grieve the loss of a man who was hellbent on making sure this nation did NOTHING to reduce the number of gun deaths. I do not grieve the loss of an Anti-American Christian Nationalist bigot.

As for the consequences. I fear that this may indeed prove to be MAGA's Horst Wessel. Whether it was, or was not, a "false flag" operation carried out by a professional to create a martyr, I have a terrible sinking feeling that his death will unleash further oppression of, and violence against, those who care about REAL American values -- -- values like human-rights, rule of law, religious freedom, and self-governance, and the thinking underlying those values, among them rationality, compassion as a moral imperative, and scientific inquiry.

*2015 numbers

[roamer65]

65. Number 2.

I think you are right.

[Crowman2009]

66. I have no empathy for Charlie KKKirk!

I'll save my empathy for those victims of recent school shooting in Colorado, the Palestinians being starved to death in Gaza, the Trans community, Federal employees being fired due to those DOGE dickheads, people losing their benefits due to those same DOGE dickheads, etc.

[mnhtnbb]

68. Andrew Weissman on Lawrence

tonight gave some pretty good reasons to indicate this was not a professional, based on the video just released tonight, and does suggest the person may be found. Identifiable clothing and backpack are good leads. Does appear to be a lone gunman, but were there others involved in planning?

[colorado_ufo]

70. Just a note on your second point.

Snipers aim for a center mass, as it is too easy to miss a small target such as a head or neck. They want to hit the target the first time, as they do not want to be discovered or be subject to counter fire. The bullet hit the neck, most likely, because the trajectory of a bullet rises, and he shot from an upper position downward. It was likely an error on the shooter's part that still accomplished what he set out to do.

Also, he looked to me to be young but too old to be a college student. He apparently did leave clues, including a handprint and footprint. This all looked planned.

[kyburbonkid]

71. Inglourious Bastards

I think that one says all. Great weird movie.