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niyad

(127,216 posts)
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 10:01 AM Sep 4

There is NO such thing as "CHILD PROSTITUTES". That term implies

agency, choice. Those CHILDREN were RAPED, VIOLATED, ABUSED. Do not let anyone get away with implying or pretending otherwise.

104 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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There is NO such thing as "CHILD PROSTITUTES". That term implies (Original Post) niyad Sep 4 OP
Absolutely correct! SheltieLover Sep 4 #1
I want to scream whenever I see it. I don't remember right now whether niyad Sep 4 #5
I'd not seen the term used. SheltieLover Sep 4 #9
roy cohn apparently used it ages ago, and I have seen it used when niyad Sep 4 #12
Omfg! SheltieLover Sep 4 #19
Many prostitutes are badically slaves IbogaProject Sep 4 #38
Infuriating! SheltieLover Sep 4 #42
actually no North Coast Lawyer Sep 4 #67
The National Organization for Women disagrees with you. Wiz Imp Sep 4 #87
These kids were obvioulsy pimped out IbogaProject Sep 4 #89
Thank you. niyad Sep 5 #91
Thank you for this enlightening, disturbing information. niyad Sep 5 #90
details matter North Coast Lawyer Sep 9 #100
Acosta did not use it. Wiz Imp Sep 4 #40
Thank you for this appalling information, and the link. This is even worse niyad Sep 4 #77
Yep. Palm Beach County state Prosecutor Barry Krischer was apparently just an awful person Wiz Imp Sep 4 #86
Dear Goddess, the horror just gets worse and worse. niyad Sep 5 #92
One bazillion percent right! FalloutShelter Sep 4 #2
You are most welcome. niyad Sep 4 #6
Trump has called the Epstein debacle a hoax. Others call the survivors child prostitutes. Where is the OLDMDDEM Sep 4 #3
There is no compassion, no morals, no ethics, in that collection of scum. niyad Sep 4 #7
Really sad, especially coming out of the dictator wanna be. OLDMDDEM Sep 4 #21
Really sad brakester Sep 5 #99
Trump ran on it JustAnotherGen Sep 4 #20
That was unbelievable but believable BaronChocula Sep 4 #58
When the files are released JustAnotherGen Sep 4 #59
I like that tack BaronChocula Sep 4 #60
Wish I could rec this TRUTH a jillion times! Heidi Sep 4 #4
Thank you. niyad Sep 4 #8
Done! Heidi Sep 4 #24
INTERPOL has a good list of appropriate terms. Heidi Sep 4 #10
Thank you so much for this. Would you consider posting it as its own OP niyad Sep 4 #13
Thank you so much for this. Would you consider posting it as its own OP niyad Sep 4 #14
The term child sex slaves comes to mind...nt Wounded Bear Sep 4 #11
Yes. niyad Sep 4 #15
K&R spanone Sep 4 #16
Thank you. niyad Sep 4 #17
Should have thousands! spanone Sep 4 #18
Like "underage women" it's a term that makes me want to stomp heads. Scrivener7 Sep 4 #22
EXACTLY!!! niyad Sep 4 #26
Same here! SheltieLover Sep 4 #27
They never say "underage men" leftstreet Sep 4 #48
"Underage women" is only ever used to mean, "that girl child that was raped." For boys, they say, "young man" Scrivener7 Sep 4 #53
I think about the word "boys" when talking about men who commit crimes, niyad Sep 4 #78
TY electric_blue68 Sep 4 #23
You are most welcome. niyad Sep 4 #28
Republicans use "women" for young underage girls IronLionZion Sep 4 #25
Exactly!!! niyad Sep 4 #29
I have a fair degree of emotional intelligence, but Heidi Sep 4 #32
They make excuses for the inexcusable IronLionZion Sep 4 #33
Same here! SheltieLover Sep 4 #43
The children are the victims of sadistic child rapists. Clouds Passing Sep 4 #30
Right. Humans under 17 have no legal standing as "adult," nevermind "prostitute," which is inherently adult. ancianita Sep 4 #31
Whatever happened to the idea of statutory rape? dlk Sep 4 #34
Red states have been lowering the age of consent and marriage IronLionZion Sep 4 #35
FALSE. Wiz Imp Sep 4 #36
Great! IronLionZion Sep 4 #37
Thanks. ancianita Sep 4 #61
Well, this is good to hear Farmer-Rick Sep 4 #76
Grooming, indeed dlk Sep 4 #45
Actually, they've been raising it... malthaussen Sep 4 #71
Good that they are raising it IronLionZion Sep 4 #73
There are no "alternative" facts (child prostitutes") in this case Republicans Stargazer99 Sep 4 #39
AMEN! LoisB Sep 4 #41
Hear, HEAR! ZDU Sep 4 #44
A simple truth a lot of people miss. marble falls Sep 4 #46
K&R!!! chowder66 Sep 4 #47
DURec leftstreet Sep 4 #49
Keep kicked! Heidi Sep 4 #50
Thank you! niyad Sep 4 #80
"Prostitute" does NOT imply agency. intheflow Sep 4 #51
To me the term does imply agency. yardwork Sep 4 #52
Excellent points. sop Sep 4 #55
I was talking about it strictly in the context of the rape-supporters use niyad Sep 4 #56
Right that's why when this one European country JI7 Sep 4 #63
correct Skittles Sep 4 #54
Exactly! niyad Sep 4 #57
Tortured children, for life. That's what I would call them. twodogsbarking Sep 4 #62
Thank you 👍 MustLoveBeagles Sep 4 #64
I admire the sentiment, but I don't want to get too hung up on the wording. Iggo Sep 4 #65
Words, and the context and intent with which they are used are important. niyad Sep 4 #81
a very messy area North Coast Lawyer Sep 4 #66
How's that "messy"? Heidi Sep 5 #95
devil is always in the details North Coast Lawyer Sep 9 #103
Exactly. OldBaldy1701E Sep 4 #68
This message was self-deleted by its author valleyrogue Sep 4 #69
So how does one draw the distinction? malthaussen Sep 4 #70
I wrote a poem about this subject -- for a friend who experienced it (trigger warning) malthaussen Sep 4 #72
Going to have to read this later. Right now I just want to scream. niyad Sep 4 #83
Rather like when they say "had sex with underage teens." WTF? Orrex Sep 4 #74
That's a big red flag, for sure--redistributing the responsibility Heidi Sep 5 #96
Just stating a fact, that in many states mikewv Sep 4 #75
JFC. Would you post a list of those states? Absolutely sickening. niyad Sep 4 #82
As of 2020 mikewv Sep 4 #85
Thank you. I pretty much guessed most of the list, but several of the states niyad Sep 5 #93
Absolutely, I couldn't agree with you more wendyb-NC Sep 4 #79
The sheer numbers of those protecting, and being protected, niyad Sep 4 #84
K&R! Takket Sep 4 #88
Thank you. niyad Sep 5 #94
Keep kicked! Heidi Sep 5 #97
Thank you! niyad Sep 5 #98
Kicking again SheltieLover Sep 9 #101
Thank you! niyad Sep 9 #102
Tyvm for posting this! SheltieLover Sep 9 #104

niyad

(127,216 posts)
5. I want to scream whenever I see it. I don't remember right now whether
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 10:07 AM
Sep 4

it was used by that scum acosta in that disgusting "sweetheart deal", or one of epstein's corrupt shysters (dersh????). roy cohn taught them well.

SheltieLover

(73,635 posts)
9. I'd not seen the term used.
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 10:13 AM
Sep 4

Not been on a lot lately.

Makes me wonder whether whoever it was is also a pedo.

Ty for sharing!

niyad

(127,216 posts)
12. roy cohn apparently used it ages ago, and I have seen it used when
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 10:19 AM
Sep 4

people talk about "kiddie brothels" as though those children had a choice.

IbogaProject

(4,967 posts)
38. Many prostitutes are badically slaves
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 11:38 AM
Sep 4

That is what pimps do they are slave holders. At best the women are pushed into it by economic depravation and maybe being trapped by substance dependance.

North Coast Lawyer

(186 posts)
67. actually no
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 06:16 PM
Sep 4

IRL most sex workers do not have "pimps." I've dealt with dozens of sex cases over the last two decades. In every case where there was an alleged pimp the guy turned out to be either the sex worker's actual boyfriend or her employee (e.g. a security guard).

The most common scenario is a neerdowell couple bouncing around from the street, to cheap hotels, to broken down old cars. If she turns a few tricks she'll pay for that night's hotel room. If he sells a bit of dope or works a day labor job he'll pay for the room. They're pretty equally screwed.

More successful women will rent a place to transact business and will often pay guys to collect money and provide security. One case I worked on involved two women and two men. The women rented an old duplex. One guy was a driver and security. The other guy collected money. The guys were charged as pimps even though they had only a few dollars in their pockets while the women had several thousand each in their purses. Further investigation revealed that most of the money was being wired to the women's families in Mexico where one of the women had bought herself a nice house.

Real life and TV/movies are two very different things. Sex slavery is a very expensive very dangerous business model. A model that for the most part doesn't exist in the USA.

Wiz Imp

(7,120 posts)
87. The National Organization for Women disagrees with you.
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 10:28 PM
Sep 4
https://now.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Myths-and-Facts-Summary-Prostution-Research-and-Education-1.pdf

6. MYTH: Most prostitution does not involve pimps.
FACT: Most prostitution involves pimps. Health service providers, shelter staff,
survivors of prostitution, and law enforcement sources estimate that 65%-85% of
all prostitution is pimp-dominated.
Pimps are the people that buyers pay to outsource the violence necessary to
keep women in prostitution obedient. While it is difficult to obtain accurate
percentages of women who have pimps, consider that pimps are not named “pimps”
by women in prostitution. They are named boyfriends, husbands, friends,
sometimes girlfriends.

Pimps are also taxi drivers, casino hosts, strip club owners, valets, massage
parlor managers, bartenders, and many others who earn money by selling or
helping to sell women in prostitution.


The National Organization for Men Against Sexism (NOMAS) also disagrees with you.

Although the pimp sector is actually in essentially full control, is by far the least visible of the three categories, prudently staying mostly out of public view. It is in fact a common tactic to minimize or even to deny the pimp sectors’ existence, to better promote the illusion that women being prostituted are “self-employed” (and are hot, sex-loving ‘chicks’), and that they can keep the money that the male buyers pay. While nationwide statistics are not available, scientific studies in various U.S. cities and locations have found that 80% – 90% of the women available in prostitution are effectively controlled by the pimp sector.


IbogaProject

(4,967 posts)
89. These kids were obvioulsy pimped out
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 10:51 PM
Sep 4

They weren't hiring anyone nor collecting much if any profit beyond drugs. I understand many codependent boyfriends get charged as pimps nowadays. And I am aware of the class shift where a cohort of sexworkers origionate from the upper middleclass have some agency and may very well not be pimped. But lets not assume any 12, 13 or 14 year old girl is exercising that kind of agency.

North Coast Lawyer

(186 posts)
100. details matter
Tue Sep 9, 2025, 02:40 PM
Sep 9

If you define every guy who has even a tangential relationship to sex work as a pimp or trafficker then of course there are many. However, if you confine those definitions to those ordinary people would consider consider pimps and/or traffickers the number becomes vanishingly small.

The inflated numbers don't help women in desperate circumstances. Rather they are used to justify inflated law enforcement budgets and by special interest groups to fund raise. Women on the street don't need another task force -- they need actual financial aid, substance abuse treatment, and social services.

Wiz Imp

(7,120 posts)
40. Acosta did not use it.
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 11:43 AM
Sep 4

However, The Palm Beach County prosecutors did refer to Epstein's victims as prostitutes.

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/2019/11/20/jeffrey-epstein-case-to-epsteins-first-prosecutors-victims-were-prostitutes/2250510007/

Jeffrey Epstein case: To Epstein’s first prosecutors, victims were prostitutes
Krischer acted as if Epstein’s teenage accusers were prostitutes who eagerly sold their bodies to buy clothes at the mall instead of treating them like high school girls who said they had been sexually assaulted by a man four decades their senior.

Krischer decided he didn't believe them, but based on a review of the state attorney’s investigative files, no one from Krischer's office ever interviewed the girls or their parents. His lead prosecutor declared more than once that there were “no victims” in the case, according to documents obtained by The Post.
[snip]
Prosecutor Lanna Belohlavek peppered the girl with questions about her social media pages, the sources said. The girl’s MySpace account, supplied to prosecutors by Epstein’s lawyers, portrayed her drinking liquor with boys and talking about sex.

The girl’s MySpace postings took center stage with Belohlavek channeling Epstein’s attorneys, sources familiar with the grand jury proceedings told The Post. Recarey said he wasn’t surprised the grand jury didn’t indict Epstein on serious sex crime charges because Belohlavek had tipped her hand. As she was preparing the case, she made a startling observation. “There are no victims here,” he recalled the veteran sex crimes prosecutor telling him.


Absolutely disgusting

niyad

(127,216 posts)
77. Thank you for this appalling information, and the link. This is even worse
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 09:11 PM
Sep 4

than I remember reading before his "suicide".

I have "Perversion Of Justice" on hold at my library. Not sure if I will be able to get through it.

Wiz Imp

(7,120 posts)
86. Yep. Palm Beach County state Prosecutor Barry Krischer was apparently just an awful person
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 10:07 PM
Sep 4

Perhaps he had a connection to Epstein himself? He probably was as responsible as anyone for Epstein being treated so lightly.

The Palm Beach Police Chief Michael Reiter was so disgusted with Krischer, he called for help from the FBI. It was only then that the FBI got involved (even though several of Epstein's victims had directly contacted the FBI themselves over the previous 10 years or so). The Police Chief even publicly accused Krischer of being too lenient.

Oh, and you want more proof of Bondi being a lying piece of shit? When she announced they wouldn't be releasing anything else at the beginning of July, she claimed the tens of thousand of videos they had were all just child porn, and there weren't videos of Epstein committing his heinous acts. However, The police search of Epstein's home found two hidden cameras and large numbers of photos of girls throughout the house, some of whom the police had interviewed in the course of their investigation (meaning he had photos of his victims spread throughout his house and was clearly video recording his abuse of his victims).

OLDMDDEM

(2,731 posts)
3. Trump has called the Epstein debacle a hoax. Others call the survivors child prostitutes. Where is the
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 10:05 AM
Sep 4

compassion? These survivors were kids scared out of their wits.

niyad

(127,216 posts)
7. There is no compassion, no morals, no ethics, in that collection of scum.
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 10:12 AM
Sep 4

Only twisted, sick, perverted hatred and evil.

JustAnotherGen

(37,047 posts)
20. Trump ran on it
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 10:31 AM
Sep 4

One of his voters was on Lawrence O'Donnell last night.

She's also one of the victimized children.


JustAnotherGen

(37,047 posts)
59. When the files are released
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 02:39 PM
Sep 4

And people are punished -

I'll go back to despising her with a blind hatred. For now she's on my neutral chaos list.

BaronChocula

(3,324 posts)
60. I like that tack
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 02:49 PM
Sep 4

And nice chatting with you across different threads simultaneously. I hope I don't get confused.

niyad

(127,216 posts)
13. Thank you so much for this. Would you consider posting it as its own OP
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 10:22 AM
Sep 4

for greater visibility. This is so very imporrtant.

niyad

(127,216 posts)
14. Thank you so much for this. Would you consider posting it as its own OP
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 10:22 AM
Sep 4

for greater visibility. This is so very imporrtant.

Scrivener7

(57,154 posts)
53. "Underage women" is only ever used to mean, "that girl child that was raped." For boys, they say, "young man"
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 01:41 PM
Sep 4

or "youth" to mean "that boy child that was raped." But unlike "underage women" the terms used for boys are also used in other contexts. The semantic pardoning of the crime is just as disgusting, though.

niyad

(127,216 posts)
78. I think about the word "boys" when talking about men who commit crimes,
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 09:18 PM
Sep 4

as a way of presenting them as harmless. The murdering menendez brothers come to mind.

IronLionZion

(49,902 posts)
25. Republicans use "women" for young underage girls
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 10:39 AM
Sep 4

and "youthful indiscretion" and "boys will be boys" for predators well into middle age or older.

Heidi

(58,771 posts)
32. I have a fair degree of emotional intelligence, but
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 10:57 AM
Sep 4

I just about lose my mind with that minimizing-the-crime sh!t.

IronLionZion

(49,902 posts)
33. They make excuses for the inexcusable
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 10:59 AM
Sep 4

Trying to normalize/minimize things that are clearly horrible.

ancianita

(41,789 posts)
31. Right. Humans under 17 have no legal standing as "adult," nevermind "prostitute," which is inherently adult.
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 10:53 AM
Sep 4

"Child prostitutes" is the sick attempt by the pedophile pack to take criminal legal liability off themselves. It's the lie they tell themselves and actually expect normal people to be stupid enough to believe.

dlk

(12,935 posts)
34. Whatever happened to the idea of statutory rape?
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 11:09 AM
Sep 4

Children, with immature brains, cannot give informed consent.

Are we really a nation of unfettered child rapists?

IronLionZion

(49,902 posts)
35. Red states have been lowering the age of consent and marriage
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 11:15 AM
Sep 4

for exactly the diabolical predatory reasons you can imagine. Just look at the many GOP with massive age gap marriages including press secretary Karoline Leavitt and Tennessee US Congressman John Rose. If you start doing the math of when John Rose met his now wife Chelsea, you're going to feel very uncomfortable. The word "grooming" comes to mind.

Wiz Imp

(7,120 posts)
36. FALSE.
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 11:28 AM
Sep 4

There no evidence of states lowering the age of consent. In fact, the opposite is true.

In 1880, the ages of consent were set at 10 or 12 in most states, with the exception of Delaware where it was 7. The ages of consent were raised across the U.S. during the late 19th century and the early 20th century. By 1920, 26 states had an age of consent at 16, 21 states had an age of consent at 18, and one state (Georgia) had an age of consent at 14. Small adjustments to these laws occurred after 1920. The last two states to raise their age of general consent from under 16 to 16 or higher were Georgia, which raised the age of consent from 14 to 16 in 1995, and Hawaii, which changed it from 14 to 16 in 2001.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent_in_the_United_States

From Google's AI Overview:

No, it is rare for states to lower their age of consent; the trend has been for states to raise the age or ban underage marriage altogether, with Colorado being a notable exception where the age was lowered from 18 to 15 in 1970 after the state's age of majority was also lowered. Recent legislative efforts in states like West Virginia and Missouri have focused on setting a minimum age for marriage, rather than lowering the age of consent.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/investigating-claim-trump-seeks-lower-225800970.html

Investigating claim Trump seeks to lower age of consent and marriage to 14

A rumor that circulated online in August 2025 claimed U.S. President Donald Trump, and the Republican Party, planned to federally act to reduce the age of consent for sexual activity, or the minimum age for marriage, to 14 — matters historically controlled at the state level. Snopes received reader searches asking if this rumor was true.
[/snip]
In one of the most prominent examples of users sharing the claim, on Aug. 11, content creator Monte Mader (@montemader) posted a three-minute video (archived) to their more than 1.5 million Instagram followers. The clip received over 2.3 million views. Mader also posted the video on Facebook (archived), TikTok (archived) and YouTube (archived), collectively earning nearly 700,000 additional views. Mader, the only person speaking in the clip, made numerous claims, including mentioning Trump's Aug. 11 press conference announcing his takeover of Washington's police department. This partial transcript highlights Mader's primary assertions, which include alleging state governments in Missouri, New Hampshire, West Virginia and Wyoming drafted legislation to allow 14-year-olds to marry adults:
[/snip]
However, searches of Bing, DuckDuckGo, Google and Yahoo located no news media outlets credibly confirming any developments about Trump and Republicans seeking to lower the age of consent for sex or marriage to 14. A review of Trump's posts on his own Truth Social social media platform found no announcements about this matter, either.

Further, similar searches produced no documentation about governments in the four aforementioned states drafting legislation to allow children as young as 14 years old to marry adults. On the contrary, outlets reported that, in recent months or years, Missouri, New Hampshire, West Virginia and Wyoming either prohibited or tightened restrictions related to marriage for persons under age 18.


https://www.tahirih.org/news/rumors-of-lowering-the-countrys-legal-marriage-age-to-14-debunked-whats-really-happening/#:~:text=No%20proposal%20exists%20to%20lower,States%20are%20making%20progress.

No proposal exists to lower the legal marriage age to 14. The rumor falsely claims that state legislatures in Missouri, New Hampshire, West Virginia, and Wyoming have drafted laws to allow 14-year-olds to marry. There’s no evidence or pending legislation that we have seen, in any of these states, to support that claim. In fact, Missouri and New Hampshire both banned child marriage effective 2025. Reforms passed in both West Virginia and Wyoming in 2023 set minimum marriage ages of 16 in those states, which previously had no minimum age.

No federal policy is being enacted to lower the age of consent for marriage. The federal government cannot raise or lower the marriage age. This is the legal purview of the states. Fact-checking sources have found no basis for this claim.


https://drzlawfirm.com/blog/child-sexual-abuse-or-serious-injury-blog/missouri-age-of-consent-laws/

Missouri Age of Consent Laws
December 8, 2022 | Child Sexual Abuse or Serious Injury
An individual must be of a certain age to legally consent to sexual activity or intercourse in Missouri. Children who are younger than the age of consent are not viewed as having the capacity to give their consent or agree to sexual contact with another person. This means sexual activity with someone below the age of consent could result in prosecution for the crime of statutory rape.

The age of consent in Missouri is 17 years old. This is the minimum age at which an individual is legally able to consent to participate in sexual activity. Anyone who is under the age of 17 cannot consent to sexual intercourse, even if he or she gives permission to engage in the sex acts. There is no such thing as getting consent from someone under the age of 17 in Missouri. Engaging in sexual intercourse with an individual under 17 violates Missouri’s statutory rape law.


https://missouriindependent.com/briefs/missouri-senate-once-again-overwhelmingly-approves-child-marriage-ban/

Missouri Senate once again overwhelmingly approves child marriage ban
By:
Clara Bates
-
March 6, 2025
12:05 pm

Marriage would be banned for anyone under 18 under a law that advanced out of the Missouri Senate Thursday.

Under current Missouri law, anyone under 16 is prohibited from getting married. But 16 and 17 year olds can get married with parental consent to anyone under 21.

The bill, sponsored by Democratic state Sen. Tracy McCreery, would ban child marriage outright. State Sen. Rick Brattin, a Republican from Harrisonville, filed similar legislation.

“The current marriage laws incentivize and legalize the trafficking of minors under the guise of marriage,” McCreery said Thursday.

The vote Thursday was 32 to 1. The only no vote was state Sen. Mike Moon, a Republican from Ash Grove.


No states have lowered the age of consent, nor are there any states even considering doing so. It isn't happening.

malthaussen

(18,290 posts)
71. Actually, they've been raising it...
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 07:41 PM
Sep 4

... probably because they have no intention of enforcing the laws anyway.

In SC, age of consent for an "unmarried woman" (if you please) was defined in the State Constitution as 14 until 2007, when an amendment to the Constitution barely squeaked by with a just-above-50% referendum vote.

In 30 of these United States, the age of consent is 16. But the issue is complicated by laws about "lesser" offenses (usually "Corrupting the morals of a minor child," or some such variation), which attempt to regulate sex between adults and minors. These "lesser" offenses are commonly misdemeanors.

-- Mal

intheflow

(29,703 posts)
51. "Prostitute" does NOT imply agency.
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 01:34 PM
Sep 4

The majority of prostitutes have long histories of abuse, neglect, human-trafficking, and drug and alcohol use (also sometimes forced on them). Very few people choose prostitution, they get into it from being coerced or from being so desperate for money it seems like the best or only option. Pimps traffic women and children, neither of which have agency under the pimp system. Adult prostitutes are also raped, violated, and abused. You think all prostitutes are Stormy Daniels and Sydney Biddle Barrows, or even Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman?

yardwork

(68,046 posts)
52. To me the term does imply agency.
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 01:40 PM
Sep 4

It's true that many sex workers are coerced or abused. However, some prostitutes consider themselves to be professional sex workers with their own agency.

I think all the OP is saying is that it's not appropriate to use a term implying agency for children who are victims.

I suspect we aren't really disagreeing here.

niyad

(127,216 posts)
56. I was talking about it strictly in the context of the rape-supporters use
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 01:45 PM
Sep 4

of the word, which all the other posters on this thread seemed to understand, so there was no need for the gratuitous insult and lecture.

I worked in the one state with legal prostitution, and I knew a number of them, worked with several on different projects outside of working hours. Many different stories.

JI7

(92,634 posts)
63. Right that's why when this one European country
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 03:24 PM
Sep 4

legalized it the women were mostly foreign from countries where women didn't have as many rights and were economically disadvantaged. The women from the country itself had other options and did not chose sex work.

twodogsbarking

(15,760 posts)
62. Tortured children, for life. That's what I would call them.
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 03:17 PM
Sep 4

So many, many times. All help is appreciated. Err on the side of caution. Trust shouldn't be assumed but needs to be earned.

Iggo

(49,187 posts)
65. I admire the sentiment, but I don't want to get too hung up on the wording.
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 03:34 PM
Sep 4

I also don’t want to get lost in the weeds looking for a feel-good term for it. Otherwise I’ll end up sounding like the “homicide bomber” and “freedom fries” crowd.

At least they’re calling them what they are: Children. (Not “underage women.”)
And they’re describing the job they’re being made to do: Prostitution.(Not “masseuses” or “towel girls” or by god “comfort women.”)

Child Prostitute. It’s an ugly term, but it works for me. Today.

niyad

(127,216 posts)
81. Words, and the context and intent with which they are used are important.
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 09:25 PM
Sep 4

It appears that you are deliberately overlooking the specific intent of those words, since you are "okay" with them. Disheartening, to say the least.

North Coast Lawyer

(186 posts)
66. a very messy area
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 05:58 PM
Sep 4

Unlawful sexual intercourse and rape are not the same thing even if the former is sometimes colloquially called statutory rape. The fact that it is unlawful to have sex with an underage person doesn't mean the underage child did not willingly engage in the act. The child's choice is just not an element of the the crime. The child retains his/her agency. It's just not a defense an adult can use to escape prosecution.

North Coast Lawyer

(186 posts)
103. devil is always in the details
Tue Sep 9, 2025, 02:51 PM
Sep 9

I'm all for helping young people who find themselves in desperate circumstances. However, decades of experience in the criminal justice system has taught me that self-appointed guardians and advocates are often more concerned with their own power, influence, and funding than they are about actual solutions. A young woman a day before her 18th birthday is a "victim" used to justify increased law enforcement budgets to fight "sex trafficking". The same woman a day after her 18th birthday is a criminal junky used to justify increased law enforcement budgets to fight for fight the surge of drugs and street crime (i.e. prostitution).

Response to niyad (Original post)

malthaussen

(18,290 posts)
70. So how does one draw the distinction?
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 07:28 PM
Sep 4

Children may be raped and exploited in many different ways, with being sold off as sex objects only one, but a distinct and prolific category. What does one call such exploitation to differentiate it from, say, Uncle Jim stopping by periodically to rape his niece, or stepfather climbing all over his stepdaughter every chance he gets?

Ah, I see post #10 answers that question. Thank you, Heidi.

Agreed, though, it is an oxymoron, much as "Juvenile Delinquent" is. But the vulgar use these terms for want of something better.

-- Mal

malthaussen

(18,290 posts)
72. I wrote a poem about this subject -- for a friend who experienced it (trigger warning)
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 07:50 PM
Sep 4

“Ode to Uncle Jim”

Your mother wanted a Bonneville
So she pimped you to Uncle Jim.
To be passed like a party favor
To Tony and Frank and Tim.

To Vegas and Reno they squired you,
Little teenaged party doll.
To be very good to Daddy
And displayed in the gambling halls.

Feral child, run through the streets.
You can’t escape the sound of your pounding feet.
Don’t talk of love to a piece of meat
Thirteen years old, and oh, so sweet.


Down on your knees in the hot desert nights
Giving to Daddy such sweet delights.
A little Lolita, Missy the whore
Learning all about love behind a locked door.

Feral child, getting her pretties:
Making them pay for their little kitty.
Lay money down in the Executive Club
Fourteen years old, and a tiger cub.


Racetracks, casinos, the hottest of spots
Where they pay for their trophy who cannot escape.
Vodka and tonic and caviar crackers:
This is just a transaction: it’s nothing like rape.

Feral child, run where you will.
Daddy is happy to foot the bill.
But here’s the thing that can really kill:
You’re fifteen years old, and over the hill.


Run from the rackets, run from the tracks,
Run from the party lights and the whole ball of wax.
Run cross the country to hide out Nowhere:
Just another teenager in “Mayberry’s” square.

The new school is lovely, the kids are so nice:
They play “Spin the bottle” on Saturday nights.
Your mind is exploding, you can’t find a space:
You’re Frankenstein’s Bride, and you’re so out of place.

Here’s the doctor’s prescription, made just for you:
Have a pint of vodka, and some digitalis, too.
You can’t even laugh, and you can’t even cry.
Sixteen years old, and it‘s time to die.

Waking later in the hospital bed
The tubes and the I.V. tell you you’re not dead.
You’ll have to find another way to crawl out of hell:
Missy is dead: Long live Michelle.

Something that is not discussed when this subject is raised: these children are survivors of a terrible situation. The Judge or defense attorney uses the victim's social media to paint them as depraved, immoral fiends who (it is unspoken, but there like a dead elephant in the room) deserve what happened to them. They need to get real. People in impossible situations : combat, concentration camps, slavery, whatever -- still have to live somehow. They're not going to spend all their time moping around saying "woe is I." A survivor tries to make the best of whatever situation they find themselves in, and as that situation is usually pretty twisted, so then are their coping mechanisms. The woman for whom I gave this poem did not become suicidal because of the situation she was in -- she adjusted. What made her suicidal and crazy was being made redundant before she had even gotten out of high school. Her whole life as she knew it and had learned to live it was overturned. Ya know, Nabakov makes much the same point in Lolita. The denial of any kind of "normal" life (for whatever value of "normal" you please) is the real crime here. And when the victim does have a chance to participate in that "normal" life, the reaction is not joy and halleluja, but fear and uncertainty.

-- Mal

mikewv

(194 posts)
75. Just stating a fact, that in many states
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 09:05 PM
Sep 4

persons under the age of 18 can be arrested for prostitution. Agency and choice is not considered.

mikewv

(194 posts)
85. As of 2020
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 10:02 PM
Sep 4

As of late 2020, at least 19 states allowed children to be charged with prostitution, but this information has changed due to subsequent legislation. Federal law considers minors in prostitution to be victims of sex trafficking, but state laws and their "Safe Harbor" provisions vary in how they treat them.
States that have been cited for allowing juvenile prostitution charges
In late 2020, a Sinclair Broadcast Group report identified the following states as having laws that allowed minors to be charged with prostitution, but some of these laws may have since changed:
Arizona
Connecticut
Florida
Georgia
Illinois
Kentucky
Massachusetts
Minnesota
Missouri
Nevada
New Jersey
New York
North Carolina
Ohio
Oklahoma
South Carolina
Tennessee
Texas
Wisconsin

niyad

(127,216 posts)
93. Thank you. I pretty much guessed most of the list, but several of the states
Fri Sep 5, 2025, 12:44 AM
Sep 5

surprisd me.

wendyb-NC

(4,478 posts)
79. Absolutely, I couldn't agree with you more
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 09:21 PM
Sep 4

My heart goes out to all of them. It sickens me that the abusers, are the ones who have been and continue to be protected. What a warped expression of humanity that runs all through it.

niyad

(127,216 posts)
84. The sheer numbers of those protecting, and being protected,
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 09:40 PM
Sep 4

is absolutely mind-boggling.

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