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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPost by an RN: he has congestive heart failure
Last edited Sat Jul 19, 2025, 10:47 PM - Edit history (3)
I usually can't agree with people who say how sick he looks, but this one has me convinced, especially with all the other RNs in the thread agreeing. I especially like the "stage 4 pitting edema". Apparently pretty far along.
JVD is probably jugular vein distension.
ETA: I don't believe that this should be taken as gospel. This, and other, observations by RNs, NPs, etc. are just educated guesses. (A respected poster thinks this is irresponsible and I should delete. But there are so many professionals in agreement, that I think it's worthwhile.)
2nd edit: trying to be responsible, here's a contrary take from a physician:
- I agree it could be CHF (and would be nice karma), but venous insufficiency-related peripheral edema cannot be distinguished easily from HF-related edema without the rest of the exam or echocardiogram findings (filling pressures, systolic and diastolic function). The data is insufficient for us to make the diagnosis. So while your suspicion is plausible it is not enough for the diagnosis. -A physician
Okay, not a diagnosis.
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TnDem
(1,194 posts)He may have CHF or nothing at all, but a armchair examination makes her look foolish.
Scrivener7
(56,559 posts)
hlthe2b
(110,857 posts)Those who are qualified to make such assessments would NEVER do so in such an emphatic way from merely casual observation on tv of symptoms. There are many rule-outs for lower leg edema. Do I believe the WH is being completely honest as to what has been done and all of his symptoms--no, I do not. But that does not mean that this kind of conjecture from an "armchair" RN or anyone else is even remotely accurate or responsible.
onenote
(45,540 posts)FWIW, my spouse was diagnosed with chronic venous insufficiency earlier this year -- a serious enough case to require ablation. She doesn't hav congestive heart failure -- in fact her cardiologist gave her a clean bill of health.
and if you see a dog with only three legs you can't possibly conclude that it is a three legged dog-------------unless you are a qualified, certified veterinarian with expansive animal education experience and advanced knowledge of canine limb mathematics.
EdmondDantes_
(722 posts)Which is what the person quoted is trying to do. A bunch of things can cause swollen ankles. My ankles once looked like grapefruits because I spent 30-36 hours sitting down in a car. Or maybe he's on TRT which can cause swollen ankles. We don't know enough to make anything more than a guess from video.
Think back to the people claiming Terri Schaivo wasn't brain dead from a video. Some of them were medical doctors and they were wrong too.
So, if I look at someone on the side of the road throwing up, can I assume it's stomach cancer? Maybe they ate at McDonalds that morning? Maybe they have a drinking problem? Maybe they have appendicitis? Maybe they've drunk syrup of ipecac?
See how that works, (or doesn't)?
You cannot make any medical judgements without complete tests and questions and a hands-on examination.
Silent Type
(10,570 posts)
Ms. Toad
(37,429 posts)Last edited Sat Jul 19, 2025, 09:34 PM - Edit history (1)
I've had it - while I was pregnant. It isn't just swelling. It is swelling and circulation so impaired that when you press on the edematous tissue it doesn't rebound (i.e. it leaves a pit). I haven't seen anyone compress his tissue and have it not rebound.
He does have edema his legs - that is obvious from the recent photos of his feet. That doesn't mean it is pitting edema.
scipan
(2,920 posts)It was all the other nurses agreeing in the thread that is making me think there's something to it.
Edit: removed "nt" in title.
Ms. Toad
(37,429 posts)When you have edema in an extremity, all of the fine wrinkles disappear. Look at the picture of his hand with the makeup on it - and do a google search for hand edema for comparison. He still has all of the normal knuckle wrinkles. If he had any significant edema, his hand would resemble a blown-up rubber glove. After you get significant edema, you can get pitting edema. Not only do all the fine wrinkles disappear when you press a finger into the hand, the pit stays for a while.
He doesn't even have significant edema in his hands - not nearly enough to have pitting edema.
His ankles are swollen enough that he could have pitting edema there, but I've never seen any pictures of him bare-ankled or -feet - let alone any pictures since they started being so swollen.
scipan
(2,920 posts)Thanks for the information.
hlthe2b
(110,857 posts)deign to diagnose as this nurse has done so emphatically. Rather (and I have done this), we discuss the possibilities and other symptoms he has manifested in the past, which may make one or another diagnosis (or multiple) more likely.
This emphatic attempt at diagnosis from someone NOT qualified is irresponsible as hell (I likewise would say the same for any commenting physician doing similarly, rather than merely talking in generalities and positing POTENTIAL rule-outs).
Please refrain from disseminating this kind of irresponsibility.
scipan
(2,920 posts)I've been a nurse's aide and did develop a lot of respect for nurses and their observation abilities.
Also, so many RNs and NPs agreeing with her. E.G.,
ICU here, completely agree w CHF. My guess is they pulled his Foley bc it was showing under his pants, making Lasix harder to give as often as he needs it. Hence, the 4+ pitting pedal edema. I’d give anything to see his EF% and GFR…. 🤨 Sending Clots and Prayers. 🤞
I’m a cardiac nurse. If his symptoms were Venus then why are only his ankles swollen. He’s refusing to wear compression socks. No mention of having dopplers to rule out DVT’s since he flys around a lot. Are they red or hot to the touch? Are his toes blue? None of this has been mentioned. 🤷🏽♀️ Have they checked for PAD? I’m sure it’s CHF
[From the op] He looks fluid overloaded to me. I'm with you venous stasis causes funky looking blood vessels not heavy duty edema.
I’m a retired nurse who did open hearts for over 30 years and I totally agree with you. They’ve been hiding his medical condition, but his pallor is grey, he’s short of breath, peripheral edema has gotten worse, and I think he’s been on Lasix with a leg bag attached, until the press pointed it out in photos. He’s tired all the time and sleeps in inappropriate places. He’s wearing makeup on his hands to hide bruises from what I think are IV meds. He should have settled into returement!
There's more...
- Been a nurse practitioner for 32 years; said the very same thing: CHF. The periorbital edema and swollen cankles...no other possibility. He's waay sicker than they'll admit. He's too ill to ever get better. Combined with the more than obvious dementia, he's a trainwreck.
- [a different take from a doc, you'll like this] I agree it could be CHF (and would be nice karma), but venous insufficiency-related peripheral edema cannot be distinguished easily from HF-related edema without the rest of the exam or echocardiogram findings (filling pressures, systolic and diastolic function). The data is insufficient for us to make the diagnosis. So while your suspicion is plausible it is not enough for the diagnosis. -A physician (and no, I’m not trying to criticize RN’s, just to clarify for accuracy)
- I too am an RN Case Manager and totally agree with you. In another post I mentioned how his so called physician must have been paid a hefty amount to tell the lie about his health. He can barely walk without appearing to have difficulty breathing, definitely a sign of CHF
Can we just agree that it's not a diagnosis, but VERY educated guesses by professionals who see this all the time?
That's an in-depth diagnosis from a wishful thinker that has never set foot in the same room as the patient.
CTyankee
(66,680 posts)We are in deep shit...
scipan
(2,920 posts)Don't want to delete it for now because I think it's good information.
I'm open to being convinced.
misanthrope
(8,979 posts)Someone will be right on that, I'm sure.
malaise
(287,383 posts)That is all
babylonsister
(172,265 posts)
malaise
(287,383 posts)😀
BigmanPigman
(53,412 posts)since he has neither a heart nor a brain. Maybe he should invest some money into going to see the Wizard in Oz. Perhaps he can buy a heart or a brain for a while but it won't last.
Morbius
(596 posts)BigmanPigman
(53,412 posts)
Oeditpus Rex
(42,161 posts)about his health, even after he's dead. They won't reveal the true autopsy report, just as with JFK.
But, it doesn't really matter. What's important is for his death to come soon.
Shipwack
(2,793 posts)“President Trump is in better condition than any dead man has ever been! He has the rigor mortis of a twenty year old! In fact, he is in better shape than many of those still alive!”
Demobrat
(10,193 posts)Lulu KC
(8,169 posts)My dad lived for over 30 years with CHF before he died at 82.
Demobrat
(10,193 posts)best health care at our expense, so he’ll probably survive longer than most if that is what he has.
synni
(486 posts)A sudden decline, as we're seeing with DJT, is a bad sign (for him).
My mom was in great shape for someone with severe CHF. She was outside weeding, a month before she died.
But then she had a very mild heart attack. Three weeks later, the swelling began. Another week later, and she was dead.
When edema appears suddenly, that's a sign of rapid decline.
bucolic_frolic
(51,682 posts)
Wiz Imp
(6,335 posts)A 2019 meta‐analysisTrusted Source estimates the following survival rates for all-type heart failure:
1 year: 87%
2 years: 73%
5 years: 57%
10 years: 35%
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321538#life-expectancy
synni
(486 posts)Most doctors are too lazy to find it, until it's very advanced, and the patient reports symptoms. They don't even bother doing the simple blood test that could alert them to the danger years in advance.
I insist on having testing every 5 years, since CHF runs rampant in my family. If one doctor won't test me, I go to another.
My Mother has had it for over 15 years. She is being treated with meds and lives her life quite well.
Historic NY
(39,168 posts)bucolic_frolic
(51,682 posts)'I can see diabetes by looking at their toes, or their legs.'
Once you see it you can't unsee it.
TnDem
(1,194 posts)I prefer to get my medical diagnosis's from TikTok...
Their soothsayers are much better.
There are some bonified, experienced physicians putting out their best knowledge. More in depth than a 20 minute office visit.
roamer65
(37,682 posts)Immediately it popped to mind.
MrWowWow
(670 posts).
.
3catwoman3
(27,285 posts)What a waste of a good heart that would have been.
CentralMass
(16,374 posts)
markodochartaigh
(3,496 posts)to say that "jvd" is "jugular VEIN distention".
scipan
(2,920 posts)Billsdaughter
(25 posts)With CHF thought of this instantly.
Ultimately, the patient literally drowns in their own fluid in a miserable and terrifying death.
The severity of the swelling along with the photos of the Foley catheter appear to indicate a Lasix protocol.
Occam's Razor. The most plausible is likely correct.
Deminpenn
(16,935 posts)As soon as one is inserted, it starts to attract bacteria and urinary tract infections are common. That only worsens with age.
Scrivener7
(56,559 posts)colorado_ufo
(6,100 posts)having worked in various capacities in different specialties in the medical world, from surgical tech to office assisting, I have a strong respect for the concept of "gestalt," or in other words, "the big picture." My first impression of Trump's physical appearance was CHF. One of the chief reasons my instincts went to that was the EVEN SWELLING in both ankles/feet. For venous insufficiency, both legs would have to have identical amounts of venous compromise for this to be so even. And it would not be affecting his face or hands.
I think his feet are so swollen he has trouble feeling them, causing him to trip on steps. He is too short of breath for the long stairs on AF1. And maybe most important, I have not heard about his being on the golf course lately.
One more thing - this seems to have gotten very much worse very quickly, unlike a chronic problem that gradually worsens.
Also, he is getting less oxygen to his brain, worsening cognitive decline.
He is in rapid decline. My unprofessional self estimates he will be paying a nighttime visit to Walter Reed in less than six weeks, maybe more like four.
scipan
(2,920 posts)Also the trouble walking and explains the cognitive decline
rubbersole
(10,195 posts)He always babbles bullshit but lately it's beyond insane. It's incoherent. The Epstine scandal is secondary to his failing health. Who is really running the country is the scandal. It has been going on for months.
Dan
(4,866 posts)As another poster said - DONALD J. TRUMP contributes nothing useful to this world!
synni
(486 posts)I have believed for some time, that DJT has congestive heart failure. He has the brain fog that often results from inadequate blood circulation to the brain...and is often misdiagnosed as dementia.
That swelling in his lower legs, happening so suddenly, is a very bad sign.
Unless you just drop dead in your sleep, death by congestive heart failure is horrible. You pretty much drown in your own fluids, and have to be doped to sleep, to avoid panic.
It doesn't matter that Trump has the best medical care. Death by CHF is hell on earth.
I won't say what I really think about this, because karma can be really nasty....
scipan
(2,920 posts)qazplm135
(7,650 posts)So odds are whatever he has, he'll last far, far longer than anyone you or I know or even almost anyone another nurse or doctor has had as a patient.
scipan
(2,920 posts)
Nigrum Cattus
(775 posts)he looks like 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound bag
ITAL
(1,153 posts)If that really is the case. TR was 42 when McKinley was assassinated and Vance isn't even 41 yet.
3825-87867
(1,494 posts)Should he check in to Reed, by law he MUST relinquish the presidency to Vance for the duration of the exam or the actual treatment.
By law, he is then no longer president and also by law, he can then be arrested or held in jail by NYC Police as per judge and conviction. And once in confinement he is no longer president even by Roberts' decree.
Wouldn't it be nice?
scipan
(2,920 posts)
Trueblue Texan
(3,534 posts)Pitting edema has to be assessed based on an actual physical exam —it cannot be done by a photo.
Dave Bowman
(5,578 posts)3catwoman3
(27,285 posts)...should be willing to be either a telemedicine provider or patient. Just sayin'.
Clinicians with plenty of years in the trenches develop very accurate 6th senses, if you will, about what is likely wrong with a patient. Call it a diagnosis, call it a very educated guess, call it a suspicion, call it speculation - whatever.
Zorro
(17,734 posts)He’s a corrupt ignorant asshole that can’t FOAD soon enough.
Aussie105
(7,114 posts)1. Observe symptoms.
2. Guess at what the problem is.
3. Run tests.
4. Confirm or refute initial diagnosis.
We can do 1 or 2 quite legitimately, done every day, but because it is from a distance, that is as far as we can go.
I'm sure the appropriate diagnosis has been made, and suitably 'filtered and sanitized' for public consumption.
The very fact it has been admitted Trump has a medical problem is an indication that it is serious.
Watch out for reduced public appearances, less travel, less posting on his favorite whinge site. That will be a better indication of his state of health.
My Bingo card says . . . probable congestive heart failure.
scipan
(2,920 posts)
doc03
(38,194 posts)up from someone's post on a message board. That sob is the luckiest person earth if you can beleive
he actually had a bullet just scratch his ear.
scipan
(2,920 posts)Orrex
(65,671 posts)Why doesn't he just die already?
no_hypocrisy
(52,445 posts)Why do you think he rushed through "The Big Beautiful Bill" and now he's rushing to get Emil Bove on the Third Circuit? (Because he may not be around in two months, that's why.)
Deminpenn
(16,935 posts)in his first term? Even though the top line announcement was laughable, there were some actual test results released.
I recall watching Sanjay Gupta's assessment of the test results. I remember being surprised that he concluded Trump had some kind heart issues. That was 8 years ago. It's entirely possible his heart condition got worse.
cally
(21,777 posts)The article implies that not that abnormal for a man his age. Doctor recommended Trump follow low fat, low carbohydrate diet and exercise.
Deminpenn
(16,935 posts)excerpt
His score is 133, and anything over 100 indicates plaque is present and that the patient has heart disease. According to Trump’s official medical records, in 2009 his coronary calcium score was 34. In 2013, it was 98.
what are statins cholesterol sje orig_00000000.jpg
Related article Should you take statins? Guidelines offer different answers
Most people might have not heard of this test, also known simply as a heart scan or calcium score. It is a CT scan, a specialized X-ray that takes high quality pictures of the heart, looking for calcium-containing plaque in the blood vessels that feed the heart, known as the coronaries. With this information, doctors can then calculate the risk of having a heart problem in the future. In the case of Trump, a new score of 133 reveals there has been a steady build-up of plaque in his blood vessels, indicating moderate heart disease. Also concerning are Trump’s total cholesterol levels and his LDL (“bad” cholesterol), as both increased significantly over the last year, despite being on a statin drug known as Crestor or Rosuvastatin.
Deminpenn
(16,935 posts)Gupta/O'Connor (Biden's WH doc) discuss the annual physical results on CNN
And a link to Gupta's latest evaluation:
Note, Gupta's assessment is based on the info the WH provided, NOT a review of actual test results.
Bluetus
(1,353 posts)This RN speculates that without the bronzer, his natural color is Grim Reaper grey.
Maybe that's true, maybe not. But the more obvious question that nobody ever asks is how it can possibly be that the President of the freaking USA can't have a professional do his make-up? I mean, his face make-up looks literally like a Halloween mask.
And now we has to put make-up on his hand to cover up whet people speculate is IV bruising. How is it possible that the President couldn't have a professional make-up artist do his hand? With a professional, nobody would ever know.
indusurb
(175 posts)The monthly bruising on the right hand leads to one, almost certain conclusion. He's on blood thinners, and is getting a monthly IV treatment of some sort. What they could be can range from diuretics and vasodialaters to iron treatments and a myriad of other such treatments, depending on what exactly is going on. Combine this with his swollen ankles, and yes, something his going on with his heart. This would also explain his decreasing cognitive ability, which is obvious. With poor circulation your cognitive abilities go down, you suffer memory loss, lack of concentration and focus, among other things.
I 5hink they trotted out the CVI as a smokescreen for far more serious problems, and that handshaking excuse is just straight up laughable.
The man is not well, and be it CHF or something else, it has to do with his cardio and circulatory system. I think he's going to be lucky if he makes it to the 2026 elections, and after that, well, say hello to President Vance, which will be a special nightmare all its own.
niyad
(125,734 posts)Last week. . .last year. . . would be nice.
All of these calls for ethics for a man who has none. Especially from a profession that’s currently being completely gutted by that man leaves me cold.
Raine
(30,914 posts)
GoneOffShore
(17,876 posts)flying_wahini
(8,157 posts)Bluestocking
(206 posts)I find it hard to believe there are no MDs on DU. They can’t all be republican
Bernardo de La Paz
(57,407 posts)
Ocelot II
(126,369 posts)and I hope it's nothing minor.
Jersey Devil
(10,426 posts)I'm 79 and I have mild swelling in one foot and ankle. The other is completely normal. My cardiologist said venous insufficiency usually start with only one leg and CHF usually affects both legs simultaneously at onset. After doing a bunch of tests to rule out CHF (which was not present), he told me to walk more and not to sit or stand for long periods of time and watch my salt intake. I started doing that and also stopped wearing socks and the swelling is now practically unnoticeable unless you are looking for it. The other thing I noticed is that swelling from veinous insufficiency is mild (at least in my case) but Trump's swelling made both his legs look like they were blown up balloons. I have no idea how they got his shoes on with that much swelling. I noticed mine one day when my shoe was a little tight getting on and my swelling was minor.
LetMyPeopleVote
(167,211 posts)
scipan
(2,920 posts)wishstar
(5,751 posts)both my spouse and a close friend were out of shape and having ankle swelling and very worried. But heart tests checked out fine but they both lost some weight, started walking more and got their undiagnosed high blood pressure normalized (spouse started Eliquis as well as 2 blood pressure meds) and the swelling went down.
Trump's medical report earlier this year stated he was only on 2 cholesterol meds plus aspirin, nothing for HBP so if they monitor his HBP better and get him on meds for that plus he gets in better shape, he can probably live many more years.
Greg_In_SF
(427 posts)this is no more helpful than when 'doctors' attempted to diagnose Biden's supposed medical issues on TV 
Demobrat
(10,193 posts)It might not help us calculate the orange anus’s life expectancy with total accuracy, but a good discussion nonetheless.
misanthrope
(8,979 posts)Last edited Sun Jul 20, 2025, 10:11 PM - Edit history (1)
Most of the time, chronic venous insufficiency is a symptom of far more serious underlying issues, not solely a casual, isolated problem. Unless he just began a new medication that brings it on -- amlodipine, for instance -- this isn't some negligible problem like an infected skin pore. In conjunction with other indications of his decline -- the cognitive issues, his fatigue, obesity, the Foley catheter, skin, bruising and evidence of IV treatments -- congestive heart failure is a good guess. It's not as if CHF is rare or unexpected for a 79-year-old with his lifestyle.
Xolodno
(7,101 posts)And God is very merciful in giving every person a chance to redeem themselves. He only gives the gift of death when he's exhausted all other options and tells Satan "Sorry, but you are going to have to take one for the team".