I see one path out of this. ONE. Maybe I'm missing something.

[Miles Archer]

And I am excluding "own the libs" horseshit like Trump declaring Martial Law and canceling the 2026 midterms and the 2028 election, Trump simply refusing to leave at the end of his term, Republicans "installing" President Don Jr or President Ivanka...

...I'm not saying that shit COULD NOT HAPPEN. I'm saying that for the purpose of this conversation, I'm not going there.

1). The 90,000,000 people who sat out last November cannot sit out November 2026. My prediction for 2024...and it came true, 100%...was that the MAGAts were STRAINING AT THE BIT to vote for Trump. They didn't need to be begged to vote, no bargaining or pleading. THEY WANTED IT.

2). I cannot explain the motivation of the 90,000,000. Part of me knows that we need to understand why they did that. A bigger part of me wants to slap them across the fucking chops in order to show my appreciation for their role in a second Trump term.

3). IF Democrats pick up enough of a majority in both chambers of Congress to actually craft meaningful legislation, Trump will get out the "veto pen" to squash ANYTHING originating with Democrats, simply out of spite. If it's not AUTHORED by REPUBLICANS, and / or does not have the support of a significant number of Republicans, he'll step on it and squash it like a bug. He WILL NOT ALLOW Democrats to "succeed" in any way that is within his power to STOP THEM.

4). IF voters give Democrats a SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF SEATS in both chambers of Congress, they can IMPEACH, CONVICT, and REMOVE TRUMP.

5). The SCOTUS is another wild card in all of this. I don't know the full scope of what Trump can kick up to them, and where their authority ends and Congress' authority begins, but the answer to Trump's "WHERE IS MY ROY COHN" whine from his first term is "Pam Bondi, Kash Patel, and the SCOTUS."

SO...if I'm missing something...assuming we DO have ELECTIONS and assuming enough of the 90,000,000 wake the fuck up and start GIVING a shit, what OTHER ways out of this HELL do you see?

[Raven]

1. If we impeach Trump, we get Vance.In many ways, I think Vance might be worse (if that's even possible).

[yourout]

2. I don't think that's even possible. If nothing else it would send a message..

[haele]

8. Vance doesn't have the following, and the Media doesn't like him.

He's a smarmy whiner rather than a showman. A Coat-tail rider.
The only reason he became famous and his book sold was Oprah.
The only reason he has any sort of political career is his network with his bosses setting him up to be their front man and buying *rump's support over other RWNJs during primaries. Inertia from the "Own the silly Libs" Media did the rest.

He cant rally the base, no matter how much Thiel or the Heritage Foundation throw money and PR around.

[Kaleva]

19. Like those who said Pence would be worse then Trump

[elocs]

20. Except the Trump cult of personality will have less loyalty to Vance. n/t

[Blue Full Moon]

23. Vance has enough to be impeached also just like Spiro Agnew

[Polybius]

37. Like what?

He won't be impeached imo.

[sdfernando]

31. Well in this scenario

I the Democrats can refuse to approve a new VP for couchfucker…then impeach Vance…. and the New Democratic SOH become President.

[Polybius]

38. Vance isn't getting impeached and convicted

Need 67 votes to convict. Why would any Republican vote to impeach and remove Vance when it would result in a Democratic Administration?

[dem4decades]

3. The red states are dumber than shit, good luck winning the Senate.

[elocs]

21. In '26, the Senate will have 20 Republicans up for reelection & just 13 Democrats. n/t

[Celerity]

32. The 2026 Senate map is not all that great for us. We have more actual at risk seats than the Rethugs do

Last edited Thu May 22, 2025, 11:35 PM - Edit history (1)

All Rethug seats up are in deep red states except for Maine (if Collins runs that's a tossup
if she retires we easily flip it) and North Carolina (Tillis is very weak but the Rethugs control the SCONC and it will be a brawl. Roy Cooper running would so help us).

That's it for their truly at risk seats. We might, might have a shot in OH if Sherrod Brown runs again. Maybe, maybe Peltola in Alaska if Sullivan doesn't run, buy he likely is running.
M

We have to defend (in terms of actually at risk seats, granted some more than others):

GA
MI
MN
NH
VA

CO and NM should be OK.

FWIW, I only missed one US Senate call in 2024 (Casey in PA).

[mopinko]

4. we're starting to do it. take to the streets and dont back down.

a general strike and constant protests to the point where money stops moving freely.
hurt the oligarchs, cuz that’s where the actual power is.

and dont say stop spending unless necessary. 60% of ppl cant afford essentials. they already arent spending a dime they dont have to.

[IA8IT]

5. I see MAGA gov starving people until food riots start. I see MAGA gov declare national emergency

I see MAGA gov death squads. I see MAGA gov mass graves.

vote for your lives you fuckers VOTE

Have A Good Day

[LonePirate]

6. One other option: Father Time catches up to Trump

The MAGA movement cannot survive under Vance. It will begin to crumble and Repubs will begin their inevitable infighting as no one will be able to herd all of those cats.

[Buckeyeblue]

22. I think this part of it

MAGA only survives with Trump. It's a true cult of personality. He's old. And unless he turns out to be immortal, his time will come.

[lastlib]

7. The chance of winning enough Senate seats in 2026

to get a conviction on impeachment is virtually nil. Most of the seats up for vote are in the solid-red South and Midwest. Almost no chance of winning any of those, unless there is a colossal political earthquake. Even getting a majority will be difficult, though not impossible.

Winning the House is certainly doable, though.

[Miles Archer]

9. I know this.

I know the idea of enough seats in both chambers to impeach, convict and remove is a fantasy.

It's an option. An option that will probably never happen, but an option.

So even if Dems get enough House seats to impeach a 3rd time, that's as far as it will go, and Trump will just find a way to monetize it.

All I know is that if the 90,000,000 stay asleep, and Trump actually does not attempt an "I'M NOT LEAVING" stunt, we probably ARE looking at President Don Jr or President Ivanka.

After campaigns by Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris, I'm sure that Republicans...ESPECIALLY the MAGAts...would LOVE to rob Democrats of that "first female president" thing. And as bonus to MAGAts, Ivanka's white.

I guess what I'm saying here is that if the 90,000,000 stay napping, the price we're going to pay is going to be dramatically worse than the one we just paid last November.

[Dan]

10. Malcolm X used to say - 'the ballot or the bullet'.

[usonian]

11. One option: Trumputin overplays his hand and tries a full-on takeover. And loses.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100220295160

They might be getting nervous, with the beginnings of pushback by courts and house passage of a (how to put this in public-facing form?) "FUCK the public for the benefit of billionaires" bill.


(Starting a new series)

And ready to pull "the big one"

[Initech]

12. The reason we still have the fucking asshole in power is because the GOP has nobody else.

They have nobody who is a household name. And voting to "own the other side" is the absolute stupidest fucking reason to vote, period.

[unblock]

13. Ultimately, we need billions of dollars to invest in the media, reclaiming the national dialog

Donnie get start a recession or botch another national emergency and they'll just blame it on liberals or Biden or china or whatever, and within a couple weeks his support will be right back where it was and gas always been -- objectively lousy but good enough to stay in power.

We have to hit hard, loudly, often, and in a coordinated way, that reaches these people on an emotional level. We haven't convinced them that Donnie is a *loser*, that he is the evil one, that he is the worst ever, that he is bad of America. We have to hammer home that the other republicans are even worse for agreeing with Donnie and have no spine whatsoever.

And we have to do it in a way that doesn't insult the people we're trying to convince, but that makes it clear to them they do not want to be associated with losers like Donnie.

There is *no way* we can restore a reasonable democracy without crushing this fascist propaganda.

[Fiendish Thingy]

14. Other possible paths:

Trump dies, or we wait until January 20, 2029.

In the meantime, Dems are likely to retake the house in 2026 (the senate will be tough this cycle), and so can block any further republican legislation.

The only way we get enough votes in the senate to convict and remove Trump is if a major institution fails, like SS or Medicare/medicaid. Nothing else will directly impact enough people to force the republicans in the senate to vote to convict. Moral outrage will never rise to a high enough level to pressure republicans to do the right thing, only actual suffering by millions of Trump voters will move the needle.

[stillcool]

15. I hope people attempt to secure

their right to vote, and the validity of the tabulation of their votes in their states. It is their vote, and their state runs their election and decides whether their vote counts or not. Unfortunately, people don't care until after the election, and then they expect someone from out of their state, to come in and raise hell and demand their vote be counted. Ass backwards. The need for 'evidence' to perform a recount? If we don't get that straightened out before-hand, we will keep getting what we got, and deservedly so.

[Ponietz]

16. People of color didn't vote

There is a pronounced racial divide between voters and non-voters; white Americans are the only racial group that is overrepresented among 2024 voters, while Black, Hispanic, AAPI, and multiracial Americans all accounted for lower percentages of 2024 voters than their representation in the U.S. population.

https://www.prri.org/spotlight/breaking-down-the-differences-between-voters-and-non-voters-in-the-2024-election

[stillcool]

24. yes they did. Their votes didn't count

[Ponietz]

25. Conspiracy theorist

Cop out.

[stillcool]

27. thank you!

[Ponietz]

29. Why do people cling to conspiracy theories?

https://democraticunderground.com/100220269626

[stillcool]

33. black people being unable to vote

you think that's a conspiracy theory? Tells me more than I need to know.

[Ponietz]

34. Facts don't support your assertion but who needs facts these days?

Post-election polls from the Pew Research Center and the progressive Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI) should put concerns of widespread problems to rest. The Census will weigh in on reasons for nonvoting later this year, but past Census surveys show that impediments aren’t a reason for most people not voting. The top responses in 2020 for registered nonvoters were “not interested” or dislike of the candidates or campaigns. For those who weren’t registered, the top response was lack of interest. In 2024, Pew asked a similar question in its poll. The top reason for not voting, at 35%, was the belief that their vote wouldn’t count. Almost as many, 31%, said they didn’t like the candidates.

In the Pew survey, 94% of self-identified voters said voting for them was very (79%) or somewhat (15%) easy in 2024. Two percent said it was very difficult and 5% somewhat difficult. Perhaps because of the alarmist way the media covers these issues, nearly three times as many, 20% of registered voters in their pre-election late-September early October survey, expected it to be very difficult. Fifty-five percent in the post-election survey said the election in their community had been run and administered very well and another 35% somewhat well.

[https://www.forbes.com/sites/bowmanmarsico/2025/01/06/most-voters-faced-few-if-any-voting-impediments-in-2024

[stillcool]

35. here's a few facts about our elections and how fair they are

The Brennan Center for Justice has a plethora of articles pertaining to our elections. Too many to include here, and I'm sure more than you would care to read. Not sure if you're familiar with it but it's a great resource
 

https://www.brennancenter.org/
https://www.brennancenter.org/issues/ensure-every-american-can-vote/voting-reform/state-voting-laws
The Brennan Center tracks voting legislation around the country, keeping an eye on measures that restrict or expand voting access, improve security, or undermine election integrity

Growing Racial Disparities in Voter Turnout, 2008–2022
The gap is increasing nationwide, especially in counties that had been subject to federal oversight until the Supreme Court invalidated preclearance in 2013.

Recent scholarship finds that restrictive voting laws
generally limit the turnout of voters of color the most.3
But while the research documents the effects of individual
policies like polling place consolidation and voter
identification laws, less is known about how the effects of these
policies compound as more restrictions on voting are
enacted.4 Moreover, many policies and practices that drive
voting are not codified in state law. Take, for instance,
voter list maintenance practices: following the Shelby
County decision, jurisdictions that previously had been
required to preclear any changes to voting with the federal
government dramatically increased the rate at which they
removed voters, even if state laws governing list mainte
nance did not change.5 We cannot identify and measure
the impact of each individual change to voting policies
and practices across the country, but the racial turnout
gap necessarily takes account of all changes in voting
policy, statutory or otherwise. Our unique data set,
collected from nearly 1 billion vote records, allows us to
conduct this analysis for the first time.
This report uses voter file snapshots from shortly after
each of the past eight federal elections from Catalist and
L2 to estimate turnout rates by race. Catalist and L2 are
respected firms that sell voter file data to campaigns,
advocacy groups, and academic institutions. Our conclu
sions based on this body of information about individual-
level turnout behavior far surpasses what previous
researchers have been able to establish working from
limited survey data. We show that the racial turnout gap
has grown everywhere. In all regions, the gap in the 2022
midterms was larger than in any midterm since at least
2006. In 2022, white Americans voted at higher rates
than nonwhite Americans in every single state besides
Hawaii. Moreover, the turnout gap cannot be entirely
explained by socioeconomic differences — in income or
education level — between Americans of different races
and ethnicities.
That gap costs American democracy millions of ballots
that go uncast by eligible voters. It also has significant
consequences for political candidates and their
campaigns. In 2020, if the gap had not existed, 9 million
more ballots would have been cast — far more than the
7 million by which Joe Biden won the national popular

the above is just a partial download of an article...just randomly chosen

Verified Voting has information about how each state chooses to run their elections, what equipment etc. When elections come around they have all kinds of information about what is going on in each state.
https://verifiedvoting.org/verifier/#mode/navigate/map/voteEquip/mapType/ppEquip/year/2024

A little article I had laying around...

Two men have re-engineered the US electoral system in favor of Republicans
If the right strews constitutional chaos over the certification of this presidential election, two people will have cleared the path
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/oct/04/electoral-college-map-gerrymandering
Fri 4 Oct 2024 06.00 EDT
David Daley
If voters wanted to toss out lawmakers who force citizens to endure harder processes to make their voices heard, well, the politicians and Leo’s rightwing judges had that covered too. Arizona, Georgia, Alabama and Texas – states that the Voting Rights Act has required to pre-approve the equity of legislative maps – were suddenly liberated by the US supreme court to gerrymander themselves into safe districts..
----
Then, in 2019’s disastrous Rucho v Common Cause, Roberts closed off appealing to federal courts to help fix partisan gerrymanders and suggested, apparently with a straight face, that voters still had the power to fix this through the ordinary political process, or by passing a law through Congress. Just like that, time and again, whether on voting rights or reproductive rights, the court would issue a ruling that benefited the Republican party, while telling citizens to fix it through a political process that the court helped engineer against them.

It could get worse still. If Georgia’s state election board – appointed largely by the gerrymandered legislature, empowered by Shelby county’s evisceration of preclearance – succeeds in slowing the state’s count or certification to a crawl, it could push the battle for the state’s electors toward courts hand-picked and packed by Leo.

Likewise, a close win for Trump in Arizona or Georgia – where fewer than 11,000 and 12,000 votes, respectively, made the difference in 2020 – could easily be attributed to aggressive new voting restrictions that target minority communities, passed by gerrymandered legislatures freed from preclearance after Shelby. And if certification runs aground in the US House, where a majority of the Republican caucus voted against certifying free and fair results from Pennsylvania and Arizona in 2020, one big reason will be the new breed of extremist lawmaker elected to Congress from districts gerrymandered to be wildly uncompetitive.

This would be the ultimate proof of concept for the right’s judicial capture and gerrymandering schemes: tilted legislatures, newly liberated by the courts, tipping the presidency back to a supreme court supermajority packed with three justices who proved their conservative bona fides working on Bush v Gore in 2000.

[Ponietz]

39. I'm not aware of even one person who wanted to but was unable to vote in 2024

Even felons’ voting rights are being restored. The ADA covers voting precincts.
The truth is too many sat on their asses and couldn’t be bothered to cast a ballot. You’re in denial.

[stillcool]

40. I've been reading about elections

since 2000. Here, at D.U. There's more than enough information available if you are interested in looking. The truth is, no one knows what the truth is. Blaming people must feel good, but it does nothing to fix our broken government.

[flvegan]

17. I don't think we fully grasp the apathy too many have regarding voting.

Just my local example here in the glorious state of Florida (yeah, yeah hush lol).

When it came down to Trump v Harris (a/k/a Democracy or No) somewhere between 22% and 30% didn't bother to vote (allegedly).

In Florida, you only have to get off your ass twice to vote, at the most.

You can request a mail in ballot online or by phone.
You get the ballot in the mail (to the mailbox, off your ass 1st time).
You fill out the ballot (it's all just circles to fill in).
You put the ballot in the "secret sleeve" then in the envelope, which you seal, date and sign.
You put the ballot in the mail (or go to a drop, voting station, whatever...this is off your ass the 2nd time)
BTW, mailing the ballot is postage free. Free!!

That's it. One would exert him/her/themself more hitting a drive through for a coffee or fries.

22-30% can't be bothered, at least here in the sunshine state.

[Vinca]

18. Sounds like the only viable plan at this point. We absolutely have to win super majorities in Congress.

[bucolic_frolic]

26. We must empower the masses. With internets, opportunity, awareness of abuse they've suffered

Maybe cancelling their health care and halving their benefits will awaken them?

We can't bribe them into voting for us. There's no money.

We need some class warfare. Billionaires stole the whole society's equity. Lock stock and barrel.

[JustAnotherGen]

28. I like your thoughts on this

But I don't think there is a political solution to the problem of Trump.

I also saw in passing the other day that Don Jr feels "called to run". When the sick twist dies - what are the chances Don Jr is installed as VP? They'll need the Leader's glamour. I don't think Trump.survives the term.

[Miles Archer]

30. The MAGAts made it clear, when Trump ran in 2020...

...that they didn't want to know anything about any other Republican on the ticket. It was Trump, or they'd stay home and punish the party by not voting.

If Trump heads off for his dirt nap, it won't be their call to make.

I think Republicans "installing" anyone is, unfortunately, a possibility at the very least and a grave threat at the worst.

And, what would be the most expedient way to appease a cult that had just lost its leader, other than offering up one of his offspring?

I saw the Don Jr. articles. I've been predicting it. It's inevitable, even if they just get him on the ticket in a traditional election. Republicans are not going to want to part ways with the cult. They're not going to want to lose those voters.

And as far as Trump is concerned, I know we're looking at a lot of evidence to the contrary, but as I've said many times, he's Fred's son, and Fred lived to age 94. That means that if heredity plays a role, we're looking at another 17 years. There's no guarantee of that, but I also don't think we should bet the farm on his not making it to 2028, where he will refuse to leave, install Don Jr, or God knows what at this point.

[JustAnotherGen]

42. So far as we know

Fred didn't have a nose candy problem, fast food addiction, and carry an extra 100 pounds.

Lewy Dementia - Trump has all the signs including the dragging leg and severe incontinence.

My was diagnosed last year around February. She was gone on June 5th.

[Miles Archer]

43. Sorry for your loss

I'm not a medical expert, especially on Dementia, and I know that comes in multiple forms. My girlfriend's dad died from Dementia but I don't know the specifics. He was a HERO to me (he and my dad were friends, I knew him since birth).

And I hear what you're saying...ALL of the evidence is against Trump in terms of health and longevity.

Then I see ambulatory fossil Rupert Murdoch, and I think of Fred, and I come to the conclusion that pure walking evil outlives decent people.

Also on the candy problem...I've mentioned it a few times since he said it a week or so ago...but one of Trump's demands for his shiny new Qatari airborne bordello is that he wants an "OREO STATION" because...quote..."I like Oreos." I don't know what an "Oreo Station" would look like or why he can't just stuff his fat face with Oreos, but he apparently needs one in order to fly on Qatari Force One.

[JustAnotherGen]

45. Oreo Station!

One tip from JAG's mom. She was here visiting me for a few weeks in May before she died. She says unprovoked out of the blue: I hope I die before him so I can push him to hell.

Ever seen the movie The Others?

"You don't know MY mother"

Oh she's gonna do it. That woman could wait decades for revenge and the shiv was always felt.
Somewhere in the Universe Miles? She's got our back. Trust me. She's gunning for him.

[DET]

41. 'They'll need the Leader's glamour'

They may need it, but they won’t get it with Junior. Junior has absolutely zero charisma. Admittedly, I have no idea what the MAGAts see in Trump (except cruelty), but even by their standards Junior comes across as a sniveling little coke weasel. Supposedly, the MAGAts abhor weakness. Junior is the definition of weakness. Even MAGAts have their standards.

It’s obvious that the King is declining fast, and he’s feeling increasingly empowered to do whatever batshit crazy thing he thinks he’s allowed to do. Personally, I suspect that he’ll go too far in the not too distant future (sending troops to fight for Putin, shooting protestors, invading Canada, converting everything to crypto) and he’ll piss off the wrong people, at which point this insanity will end.

[Polybius]

36. Its mathematically impossible to pick up that many Senate seats in 2026

At maximum, it will be a net gain of 3 if everything goes right. That will put the Senate at 50-50. We need 67 votes to remove.

[Miles Archer]

44. I know the math isn't there...

...and I know it's the long shot of all long shots, and in reality, most likely an impossibility. I don't cite it because I believe it would happen. I cite it because people have been talking impeachment since January 20th, and the only way it would happen is if Democrats had the seats, which they won't have.

I don't know the value of another "House Only" impeachment. It would anger Trump, and perhaps prompt him to do something really horrific to show Dems who's boss, but he's doing so many horrific things right now, who would notice?